Hi folks!
How can I know / calculate the "preferred volume" (in cubic feet or cubic centimeters) for the enclosure of my 18" woofer speaker?
Its for my 4-way speakers (consisting of an 18"woofer, a Kef B200, a midtone and a ribbon tweeter)
Dayton Audio PA460-8 18" woofer Specifications
Thanks very much!
How can I know / calculate the "preferred volume" (in cubic feet or cubic centimeters) for the enclosure of my 18" woofer speaker?
Its for my 4-way speakers (consisting of an 18"woofer, a Kef B200, a midtone and a ribbon tweeter)
Dayton Audio PA460-8 18" woofer Specifications
Thanks very much!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Last edited:
The parameters are listed on the link he provided.
There is free software for this. Not sure how good it is though. Do you know if you want vented or sealed? What are you doing for the crossover?
AJ Audio Subwoofer Box Enclosure Design Software - Sub Speaker Cabinet Building Program Downloads
There is free software for this. Not sure how good it is though. Do you know if you want vented or sealed? What are you doing for the crossover?
AJ Audio Subwoofer Box Enclosure Design Software - Sub Speaker Cabinet Building Program Downloads
CCU, dead on.
If anyone does not believe how difficult it is to build a speaker system well, just go to the store and see how many build and sell speakers that are terrible. (most). Then go pick a speaker that is done well. Vanderstein 2Ce for example. Look carefully and ask yourself, "Now what am I going to do better?" It is not easy.
A few tips for first timers:
Build an established design. The place to start is to pick up Joe DeApollito's book on measuring speakers.
I do my box modeling in WinIsd even though I have SoundEasy. I do my T/S measurements with WooferTester II. I actually use TrueRta for acoustic testing more than I should ( paid high res version). At some point, you are going to buy a mic. Do not mess around, get one that is calibrated first. It will save you a lot of money.
Now here is what beginners do not want to know. 90% of the result is the crossover. Not the drivers, not the box. The crossover. Stick with cheap drivers and unfinished boxes until you understand this. I can design and build a box to be optimum for the problem in a couple of days. I can (and do) just send ScanSpeak or Seas lots of money and buy fantastic drivers. I have spent 35 years trying to understand crossovers for just a two-way. ( subs are easy. Electronic, 4th order at least)
If anyone does not believe how difficult it is to build a speaker system well, just go to the store and see how many build and sell speakers that are terrible. (most). Then go pick a speaker that is done well. Vanderstein 2Ce for example. Look carefully and ask yourself, "Now what am I going to do better?" It is not easy.
A few tips for first timers:
Build an established design. The place to start is to pick up Joe DeApollito's book on measuring speakers.
I do my box modeling in WinIsd even though I have SoundEasy. I do my T/S measurements with WooferTester II. I actually use TrueRta for acoustic testing more than I should ( paid high res version). At some point, you are going to buy a mic. Do not mess around, get one that is calibrated first. It will save you a lot of money.
Now here is what beginners do not want to know. 90% of the result is the crossover. Not the drivers, not the box. The crossover. Stick with cheap drivers and unfinished boxes until you understand this. I can design and build a box to be optimum for the problem in a couple of days. I can (and do) just send ScanSpeak or Seas lots of money and buy fantastic drivers. I have spent 35 years trying to understand crossovers for just a two-way. ( subs are easy. Electronic, 4th order at least)
Thanks very much for all info!
Indeed, I will be using ACTIVE 4-way crossovers (from minidsp.com which are widely applauded by experienced users who only believed the quality after they compared these to expensive pro crossovers) with 4 amplifiers. so I have lots of room for tuning and adjustments.
The online free software over here
LinearTeam
advises an optimum of 80 as Vb, for a closed box which is what I want. But is this Cubic Feet or Cubic Centimeters??
Indeed, I will be using ACTIVE 4-way crossovers (from minidsp.com which are widely applauded by experienced users who only believed the quality after they compared these to expensive pro crossovers) with 4 amplifiers. so I have lots of room for tuning and adjustments.
The online free software over here
LinearTeam
advises an optimum of 80 as Vb, for a closed box which is what I want. But is this Cubic Feet or Cubic Centimeters??
I can't open the software you linked to on my work computer, but I'd guess the 80 is liters, since it appears the website author is European.
Another great resource for DIY speaker building is the Parts-Express techtalk forum Techtalk Speaker Building. There are a lot of very knowledgeable and helpful members on techtalk. I've met several of them and have built some of their designs.
If you solicit some advice from some of the "gurus" for your build, you'll end up with a very good speaker. If you go it alone, you're missing out on a valuable resource. There is a LOT of physics involved with a properly designed speaker. There is a LOT of gratification in applying the principles correctly.
Mike
Another great resource for DIY speaker building is the Parts-Express techtalk forum Techtalk Speaker Building. There are a lot of very knowledgeable and helpful members on techtalk. I've met several of them and have built some of their designs.
If you solicit some advice from some of the "gurus" for your build, you'll end up with a very good speaker. If you go it alone, you're missing out on a valuable resource. There is a LOT of physics involved with a properly designed speaker. There is a LOT of gratification in applying the principles correctly.
Mike
It's not a good candidate for sealed, but maybe you can find it possible.
Test here. EBS Software.
Their site is wrong "Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas) - 473.50 cu. ft.". It says Cuft instead of liters. You can find good Vas (liters) data on the pdf.
If you go on with the choice for your sub you can use it like this in a BR,
DAYTON PA460-8 18, VB = 154.0 L, FB = 28.8 Hz, 97.6 dB2.83Vm.
F3=44 Hz, F6=34 Hz, F12=24 Hz 05.2012
but be advise that you can get better l.f. extension with this 5" woofer in a 8 liter enclosure. TangBand W5-1138SM
PA woofers are not that great l.f. champions reproducers.
(This is advise for others as of course you can manipulate with dsp and equalization, but I don't have the experience. Please post your findings)
Test here. EBS Software.
Their site is wrong "Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas) - 473.50 cu. ft.". It says Cuft instead of liters. You can find good Vas (liters) data on the pdf.
If you go on with the choice for your sub you can use it like this in a BR,
DAYTON PA460-8 18, VB = 154.0 L, FB = 28.8 Hz, 97.6 dB2.83Vm.
F3=44 Hz, F6=34 Hz, F12=24 Hz 05.2012
but be advise that you can get better l.f. extension with this 5" woofer in a 8 liter enclosure. TangBand W5-1138SM
PA woofers are not that great l.f. champions reproducers.
(This is advise for others as of course you can manipulate with dsp and equalization, but I don't have the experience. Please post your findings)
Attachments
Thanks for your advise! I will go for a closed box indeed. I trust my 4-way active crossovers and driver quality within my budget range.
I assume that a given VOLUME van be freely divided between whidth, height and deppth?
If so, then I am really in love with the following pproportions that would give me the perfect volume and a very compact tall speaker. See my drawing below.
Is this very possible or very utopian?
I assume that a given VOLUME van be freely divided between whidth, height and deppth?
If so, then I am really in love with the following pproportions that would give me the perfect volume and a very compact tall speaker. See my drawing below.
Is this very possible or very utopian?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
system design
In my humble opinion, that KEF b200 will not keep up with the Dayton 18".
It would be better to use a high efficiency mid-bass.
To answer your question, though: That Dayton is best suited for a quasi 3rd order butterworth vented alignment. In a vented 4.43 (net) cubic foot box
using a 4" i.d. ducted port at approx 1 3/4" deep, you can expect response down to about 47 Hz. It will be loud and dynamic, but will not ultimately play extremely deep bass.
ps. an Active 4 way is the way to go for sure !!
In my humble opinion, that KEF b200 will not keep up with the Dayton 18".
It would be better to use a high efficiency mid-bass.
To answer your question, though: That Dayton is best suited for a quasi 3rd order butterworth vented alignment. In a vented 4.43 (net) cubic foot box
using a 4" i.d. ducted port at approx 1 3/4" deep, you can expect response down to about 47 Hz. It will be loud and dynamic, but will not ultimately play extremely deep bass.
ps. an Active 4 way is the way to go for sure !!
Loudness is not a problem: its powered by its dedicated Denon POA 4400 monoblocks.
Deep bass doen to 30 Hz is important for me... I was thinking of 1 or two Kef B200's but I think one is enough. not? the tweeters are Fountek Neo Ribbon tweeters by the way. I am still searching for a nice mid driver for vocals... any suggestions there?
Deep bass doen to 30 Hz is important for me... I was thinking of 1 or two Kef B200's but I think one is enough. not? the tweeters are Fountek Neo Ribbon tweeters by the way. I am still searching for a nice mid driver for vocals... any suggestions there?
Both look interesting! thanks Fatmarley. Anybody else got tips? I will post some more photos / updates once the 18" woofers arrive. I will make the "family" photo next to the four Kef B200's and the two Fountek Neo ribbon tweeters... probably then only the midrange member will be missing. I listen alot to female vocalists. Anybody got good experiences with those?
(I know the only real treat would be to put a girl with nice voice in front of me, only trouble would then be I can't make her sing just for me at around 1 or 2 in the morning, which is the sweetspot time of my creative listening flows)
(I know the only real treat would be to put a girl with nice voice in front of me, only trouble would then be I can't make her sing just for me at around 1 or 2 in the morning, which is the sweetspot time of my creative listening flows)
Inductor, thanks again for your graphical representation of the frequency response mate! My project halted in 2012 but is now revived again! Wich much more knowledge about active-crossovering etc. Ive posted a follow up from this question which is general enough for the wide public to start a new thread here. I invite you to have a look here:
Greetings all and thanks again for the great insights!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...oofer-box-frequency-response.html#post5298676
Greetings all and thanks again for the great insights!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...oofer-box-frequency-response.html#post5298676
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