Celestion Ditton 44 sounding muddy

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
Can't say I've ever had anything but improvement from polypropylenes, especially the big 650V ones which are industrial grade, but they are kinda BIG!

This is a good tip I picked up here. Give rubber surrounds a coat of silicone grease to preserve them from flaking and drying and maybe soften them a bit:

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


That's an aerosol can, but I put it on with a tissue. Good on black car dashboards too! Looks nice.
 
Can't say I've ever had anything but improvement from polypropylenes, especially the big 650V ones which are industrial grade, but they are kinda BIG!

This is a good tip I picked up here. Give rubber surrounds a coat of silicone grease to preserve them from flaking and drying and maybe soften them a bit:

[Picture removed]

That's an aerosol can, but I put it on with a tissue. Good on black car dashboards too! Looks nice.

Thanks for that tip! I will definitely invest in that.

I guess I read about people having trouble with poly's on these crossovers for the dittons, but, maybe it's the brand they used. What I'll do is do some more research, and then when I find a suitable replacement I'll post about it here to get some feedback on it.

Thanks again Steve, I really appreciate it. I'll keep you posted. :)
 
Turns out that the speakers had been sitting for a long time. I've been playing them continuously for hours and they are really starting to open up.

quite often that's a psycho-acoustic thing... you might be "adjusting" to the "poor" sound.:)
.
the capacitor values on 95% of those that i've tested from that era have migrated 20-50% from spec. and that is detrimental to the sound.

cap replacement can be sort of labor/time intensive. you might try with one speaker first and then do a listening test between the two. good luck.
 
You know, after doing some more testing I'm really thinking either the tweeter or the crossover is the culprit.

The sound vastly improves if I set the High to +10 and the Midrange to -5 on my amp. It seems like the tweeter just isn't playing loud enough - sounds great, in fact quite amazing, but only when it's at +10 on the amp.
 
This is all proving a bit perplexing. But now you know the crossover you can replace (er, recap...) some of the Non-polars. The green ones look like metallised polyester film marked MKT normally, which should be long-lasting, but you might have a dry joint there.

Old speakers can have oxidised crimp connections too. You'll get there.
 
I'm gonna take the tweeters off and see if maybe there's something loose or not connected fully there.

Unfortunately it's gonna be a while before I get to doing the crossover upgrade, as I don't have the tools (and I'm a little short on funds) so I'll have to try some other routes first before doing that.

I'll also try doing a deoxit on the speaker terminal and connectors to see if that helps any.
 
Last edited:
This is hardly scientific, but connecting a 1.5V battery across the tweeters should give you a noticeable crackle which tells you how they are working. Technically positive to positive and the tweeter moves forward if polarity is correctly marked.

Cheap too. :D
 
This is hardly scientific, but connecting a 1.5V battery across the tweeters should give you a noticeable crackle which tells you how they are working. Technically positive to positive and the tweeter moves forward if polarity is correctly marked.

Cheap too. :D

Good idea! I'll do that as well.

And of course, I'll report back.

Thank you for all of your help Steve, I really appreciate it.
 
Okay, so I've made some more progress on this issue. Took me a little while to getting around to it, but I did! lol

Anyways, so I put the multimeter on all drivers. Midrange tests at 6 ohm for both, tweeter tests at 4.8ohms for both, and bass driver tests at 4.6ohms for both. A little higher than what they should be but they aren't blown at the least.

I've also noticed its the left speaker (so just one of them) that is really having the muddy sound now. The other one, the tweeter plays quite a bit louder than the other one. I'm starting to think it's the capacitors on the crossovers failing. What do you guys think?
 
Glad to hear a set still out there. My tweeters de-laminated after only about 7 years. Re-placed them with Seas. It would be fun to use that woofer and mid in a modern cabinet with modern tweeters. ( I think mine were Mk 1.)

If you have never done any soldering before, best to ask around your town and offer a pint or two as a bribe. It is really easy if someone shows you and shows you the correct equipment. You can make a mess with the wrong stuff.

Oh yea, vote for the caps too. By the size, they have to be electrolytic.
 
Glad to hear a set still out there. My tweeters de-laminated after only about 7 years. Re-placed them with Seas. It would be fun to use that woofer and mid in a modern cabinet with modern tweeters. ( I think mine were Mk 1.)

If you have never done any soldering before, best to ask around your town and offer a pint or two as a bribe. It is really easy if someone shows you and shows you the correct equipment. You can make a mess with the wrong stuff.

Oh yea, vote for the caps too. By the size, they have to be electrolytic.

Changing caps on a crossover is easy work :) I've already done it on a set of IMF TLS 80's and it turned out great, so I have no problems doing it on these ones.

They are indeed electrolytic, with a couple being film type. I'm going to get replacements from Falcon Acoustics and go from there..

Thanks for the reply!
 
ferro fluid tweeter?

just a little thought that occurred to me. Does this speaker use a ferrofluid tweeter? If so, maybe drying out of the fluid could change the sound of the tweeter. Just a thought, maybe nothing though. I have also seen it recommended to add a series R when swapping lytics for MKP, to approximate the ESR. I couldnt say for certain but perhaps 0.1 to 0.5 ohm is worth a try?
 
just a little thought that occurred to me. Does this speaker use a ferrofluid tweeter? If so, maybe drying out of the fluid could change the sound of the tweeter. Just a thought, maybe nothing though. I have also seen it recommended to add a series R when swapping lytics for MKP, to approximate the ESR. I couldnt say for certain but perhaps 0.1 to 0.5 ohm is worth a try?

I would do that, but I think for this crossover going for original replacements is best. That's what I found with my IMF's. The crossover might not be as complicated but, I don't mind doing the crossover cap replacement 30 years down the road. Here's what is on there:

24MFD 50V Low Loss Electrolytic ELCAP
72MFD 50V Electrolytic ELCAP
6MFD 50V Low Loss Electrolytic ELCAP

Then there are 4 green caps, I think these are film:

0.68uF 160V
1.5uF 160V
3.3uF 160V
4.7uF 160V

I think the ESR rating is what is important with the ELCAP's. Also noting that some are low loss. I can get replacement ALCAP's which are direct replacements, however maybe if I can source them out cheaper somewhere else that would be nice, but I'm definitely leaning towards the ALCAP's.
 
Last edited:
haha ok. Im not a fan of the can, i have to say. But at least they seem like the better of the many generic horrors you can find, then im fairly sure they will perform as you hope. To be honest, i mentioned it because i thought you were replacing the lytics with MKP lol.....i wasnt very awake lol

on your choice of Erse coils, i have some 12ga Alphacore here, darn nice looking. Fairly expensive, but i dont know if they are around anymore, or how the price compares. Maybe its worth a look?
 
Last edited:
haha ok. Im not a fan of the can, i have to say. But at least they seem like the better of the many generic horrors you can find, then im fairly sure they will perform as you hope. To be honest, i mentioned it because i thought you were replacing the lytics with MKP lol.....i wasnt very awake lol

on your choice of Erse coils, i have some 12ga Alphacore here, darn nice looking. Fairly expensive, but i dont know if they are around anymore, or how the price compares. Maybe its worth a look?

Hmm is replacing the coils necessary? They should be OK, shouldn't they?
 
Coils are fine. Don't touch. See how you like it when repaired.
I did a totally different grill cloth by framing a sheet of 1/2 inch thick felt. This did wonders for the imaging and diffraction. I never loved the tweeters. Much better ones are out there not, but the mid and woofer were great drivers. Some internal cabinet work could help with resonances. The front and rear are coupled by the mid chamber. Clever. If I remember, foam stuffing. It has been a long time. Mine were teak and had about 50 coats of oil on them. Very nice.
 
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.