I just have to say it. Baffles are there for a reason. Period. Go ahead and build a no baffle system. Eq and amp all you want. Use a 24 inch sub. When you are done, please do a little reading on how loudspeakers actually work so you can begin to learn and build a speaker system that will actually work correctly. You may eve discover why full ranges aren't.
Don't believe me? Go fill a tub with water. Push your hand through it. Notice how instead of pushing a column of water, it just goes around your hand and fills in behind it. Air works that way.
Don't believe me? Go fill a tub with water. Push your hand through it. Notice how instead of pushing a column of water, it just goes around your hand and fills in behind it. Air works that way.
Sound is not shoveled around by hand. It travels by waves. Throw two pebbles into a pond and look, how the waves cross through each other without much disturbence - that's how dipoles work.
Rudolf
Sound is not shoveled around by hand. It travels by waves. Throw two pebbles into a pond and look, how the waves cross through each other without much disturbence - that's how dipoles work.
Rudolf
High pressure will seek low pressure.
best of all baffled (not no-baffle) dipoles ?
You'd still prefer array of W22s (plus others) in free air though, correct ? Just to make sure I understand your statement.
Oh, good to know mine's been broken for the past two years.
The hard part of a nude three way is the mid---there aren't really any dynamic drivers that don't have problems with magnet shadow. Plus if you size the driver appropriately for a truly point source cross to an 18 even at limited SPL you're looking at an 8, meaning you get cone breakup problems at the high end of the driver's range. The Neo10's pretty much the only commercially available driver that mitigates those issues without too much compromise. Even then it's tricky to get reasonably consistent directivity at its upper cross.
Stig Erik's explored the quasi-line array and line array alternatives to a nude point source design quite a bit and addressed the resulting directivity issues by switching to a dead end-dead end room configuration. There are lower SPL nude line array options with more consistent directivity that should be less demanding of room treatment, though those have compromises too.
Key thing is to measure what SPL you need to hit, do your bottom end volume displacement math (see Linkwitz's spreadsheets), and select drivers, speaker design type, and room treatments accordingly. At 2mm xmax the GW-1858 proposed in post 1 probably isn't going to cut it in a point source design unless one has quite high THD limits. I've been tempted to try Selenium 18WS600s but their 3.6 is about the shortest throw I'd entertain as it's rather marginal even for a 90dB SPL target. If you're trying to stay under USD 100 per sub and want to order from Parts Express look at the Dayton PA460. If you have more flexibility the bang for the buck on Selenium's 18SWS1100 is tough to beat in the US.
Oh, good to know mine's been broken for the past two years.
The hard part of a nude three way is the mid---there aren't really any dynamic drivers that don't have problems with magnet shadow. Plus if you size the driver appropriately for a truly point source cross to an 18 even at limited SPL you're looking at an 8, meaning you get cone breakup problems at the high end of the driver's range. The Neo10's pretty much the only commercially available driver that mitigates those issues without too much compromise. Even then it's tricky to get reasonably consistent directivity at its upper cross.
Stig Erik's explored the quasi-line array and line array alternatives to a nude point source design quite a bit and addressed the resulting directivity issues by switching to a dead end-dead end room configuration. There are lower SPL nude line array options with more consistent directivity that should be less demanding of room treatment, though those have compromises too.
Key thing is to measure what SPL you need to hit, do your bottom end volume displacement math (see Linkwitz's spreadsheets), and select drivers, speaker design type, and room treatments accordingly. At 2mm xmax the GW-1858 proposed in post 1 probably isn't going to cut it in a point source design unless one has quite high THD limits. I've been tempted to try Selenium 18WS600s but their 3.6 is about the shortest throw I'd entertain as it's rather marginal even for a 90dB SPL target. If you're trying to stay under USD 100 per sub and want to order from Parts Express look at the Dayton PA460. If you have more flexibility the bang for the buck on Selenium's 18SWS1100 is tough to beat in the US.
I have seen your thread before finalizing this decisipon...so you are saying your design didnt worked out?
V
Sorry may be i am not seeing but i see just a normal 3 way speaker..where is dipole in that configuration?
I see woofer tweeter and mid am i missing something...
V
Best of all baffled yes. I did at a point end up with a 4-way, where the woofers were in H-baffles (still have those), and then the rest was no-baffle: 4x Seas W22, 2x Seas W15 and one Mundorf AMT. This speaker was somewhat better in the midrange, but the midbass was better on the baffled 21" 3-way. This no-baffle dipole was later on replaced by a no-baffle B&G RD-75 ribbon, which I still have and probably will have for a very long time.
I'm saying it works fine for me, so perhaps tvrgeek's broad assertions about baffles should be more specific; required front to back path length is proportional to required SPL, inversely proportional to the driver's lower frequency limit, inversely proportional to THD/IMD limits, and inversely proportional to volume displacement.
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My first DIY speaker....still need time to break in...thansks everyone thank you...
Made in my restroom in my apt...
Right now all i have is
emience 15 alpha crossed at 195...active crossover behringer...
and tang band
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w4-655sh.htm
All are running from 8 channel rotel amp.......
and honestly it is not sounding wow ...BUT from my ear it is sounding real good....honestly....it is good...i plan to get eminence Beta 12LTA full range and drive them with some class A amp....
V
Made in my restroom in my apt...
Right now all i have is
emience 15 alpha crossed at 195...active crossover behringer...
and tang band
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w4-655sh.htm
All are running from 8 channel rotel amp.......
and honestly it is not sounding wow ...BUT from my ear it is sounding real good....honestly....it is good...i plan to get eminence Beta 12LTA full range and drive them with some class A amp....
V
Attachments
Question... i am getting a Neo3 and i want to give the same signal to Mid and Neo3 as i am planning to amplify with them class A amp so i dont want to get 2 class A amps...
whats the best capacitor value i should look to alteast first stop low frequencies coming to neo3
also what is the optimum high pass filter to cross at tweeter
V
whats the best capacitor value i should look to alteast first stop low frequencies coming to neo3
also what is the optimum high pass filter to cross at tweeter
V
Try 12 µF in series to the Neo3 followed by 0,47 mH parallel to the Neo3. That is a basic 2 kHz HP.
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