NO Baffle 3 way speaker

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Rudolf

Rudolf

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Joined 2003
dipolplus.de
What about the "no woodworking" issue? Is it still your intention to build a dipole without baffle - at least for midrange and tweeter? In that case you will fail without measurement capabilities. I didn't see it mentioned in your list. ;)

If you intend to start with a "baffled" dipole along the lines of MJK (H frame woofer and fullrange driver in OB), things would be more easy for you.

As for amplifiers: in combinastion with the Behringer DCX a 7.1 channel AV receiver would be the most cost efficient and space saving solution. With the added advantage of remote control volume management after the DCX. Look for receivers with 70-100 W (FTC) at 8 Ohm per channel.

Rudolf
 
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thisisvv

Member
Joined 2012
Rudolf said:
What about the "no woodworking" issue? Is it still your intention to build a dipole without baffle - at least for midrange and tweeter? In that case you will fail without measurement capabilities. I didn't see it mentioned in your list. ;)

If you intend to start with a "baffled" dipole along the lines of MJK (H frame woofer and fullrange driver in OB), things would be more easy for you.

As for amplifiers: in combinastion with the Behringer DCX a 7.1 channel AV receiver would be the most cost efficient and space saving solution. With the added advantage of remote control volume management after the DCX. Look for receivers with 70-100 W (FTC) at 8 Ohm per channel.

Rudolf
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thanks for the avr ...will be looking to buy...hows den on 1612 75 watts per channel 7.1 ...it is still open baffle hanging from top first if not happy will look into go for h frame

btw anyone know if behringer new or drive rack 260 used is better to go route for active crossover
 
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Rudolf

Rudolf

Member
Joined 2003
dipolplus.de
thisisvv said:
where is the analog inputs for 6 channel in den on 1612...
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It doesn't have such inputs. :(
If you are looking for 6 amplifiers you need a 7.1 receiver with something like a DVD multichannel input. Denon calls it "Ext.in" in the 1507 for instance.
Don't try to combine an external stereo amp with a 5.1 receiver. That would make the approach useless.
it is still open baffle hanging from top first if not happy will look into go for h frame
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Leaving the woofer without some sort of baffle is counterproductive (where a H frame is a "sort of baffle").
 
DrDyna

DrDyna

Member
Joined 2007
thisisvv said:
thanks for the avr ...will be looking to buy...hows den on 1612 75 watts per channel 7.1 ...it is still open baffle hanging from top first if not happy will look into go for h frame

btw anyone know if behringer new or drive rack 260 used is better to go route for active crossover
Click to expand...

I have an older Yamaha here that's about 100 wpc which has multichannel inputs, however my newer Onkyo one does not.

The Denon 1612 is a 5.1 receiver that lacks multichannel input. You have to find a receiver that has the multi in like my old Yamaha 5960. Attached is a pic of the inputs you need to have.

Edit: I hadn't thought about selling the old receiver to someone in the market for a multichannel integrated amp, maybe I should swap meet it! lol
 

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thisisvv

Member
Joined 2012
DrDyna said:
I have an older Yamaha here that's about 100 wpc which has multichannel inputs, however my newer Onkyo one does not.

The Denon 1612 is a 5.1 receiver that lacks multichannel input. You have to find a receiver that has the multi in like my old Yamaha 5960. Attached is a pic of the inputs you need to have.

Edit: I hadn't thought about selling the old receiver to someone in the market for a multichannel integrated amp, maybe I should swap meet it! lol
Click to expand...


I guess so looking around and not many have analog input....still looking for seomthing atleast 100-150W power and 8 channel power
 
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thisisvv

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Joined 2012
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Brian Oshman

Member
Joined 2010
Going with a A/V 7.1 amp will necessitate the need for upstream source switching and preamp and volume control. Feeding the DVD descrete input will not allow you to use the other inputs on the amp if you want to use the amp channels separately since this will be the only input you can use.

In order to use all channels and also use the source switching and remote volume controls you will need to do some surgery to be able to externalize the pre map output of each amp then send it back into the power amps. This requires trace cutting and soldering to create a mid point in the amp circuits.

If you are a newbie then something of this nature may be above your head in doing so. You may just want to get a six channel amp with individual inputs or three stereo amps.
 
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thisisvv

Member
Joined 2012
Brian Oshman said:
Going with a A/V 7.1 amp will necessitate the need for upstream source switching and preamp and volume control. Feeding the DVD descrete input will not allow you to use the other inputs on the amp if you want to use the amp channels separately since this will be the only input you can use.

In order to use all channels and also use the source switching and remote volume controls you will need to do some surgery to be able to externalize the pre map output of each amp then send it back into the power amps. This requires trace cutting and soldering to create a mid point in the amp circuits.

If you are a newbie then something of this nature may be above your head in doing so. You may just want to get a six channel amp with individual inputs or three stereo amps.
Click to expand...

My preamp is Classe ssp-300 which will have upstream switching and volume control...will then AVR can work as amp?
 
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thisisvv

Member
Joined 2012
Just wanted to update the thread i have ordered following thngs...

http://www.rotel.com/content/manuals/rmb1048_multi.pdf ...8 channel Rotel 40w Cant bridge Rotel RMB 1048 channel....

2 Eminence 15inch Alpha Drivers

4 or 2 pair of tang bed 4 inch full range...


http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w4-655sh.htm

also ordered a behringer active crossover and the cables from Monoprice...

now my plan is to do

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...le-dipole-beyma-tpl-150-a-28.html#post1962447

and i will be crossing over 150hz to Alpha and beyond that to Full range...

My question is do i need to dipole the full range as i have 2 pairs now or single would be enough?

V

PS:BTW thanks for all the help it took a while but it is slowly coming...
 
6

63781

Disabled Account
Joined 2008
150 Hz is waaaay to low XO point for a dipole 4" driver without baffle. I recommend 4-500 Hz. That should be OK for 15" woofers in OB as well. Also, you could consider using two 4" fullrangers in push-pull to get the same polar response front and rear.

I will not recommend running the woofers nude, that is just not sensible. I gave up on that idea a long time ago, since you will loose so much efficiency at the low end. A small H-baffle is much better.
 
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thisisvv

Member
Joined 2012
StigErik said:
150 Hz is waaaay to low XO point for a dipole 4" driver without baffle. I recommend 4-500 Hz. That should be OK for 15" woofers in OB as well. Also, you could consider using two 4" fullrangers in push-pull to get the same polar response front and rear.

I will not recommend running the woofers nude, that is just not sensible. I gave up on that idea a long time ago, since you will loose so much efficiency at the low end. A small H-baffle is much better.
Click to expand...


In that case i might move to your this version

http://www.tangenavdesign.com/Projects/Dipole/theRedDipoles02.jpg


V
 
Rudolf

Rudolf

Member
Joined 2003
dipolplus.de
StigErik said:
150 Hz is waaaay to low XO point for a dipole 4" driver without baffle. I recommend 4-500 Hz.
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I am 100 % with what StigErik says. Just to underpin the importance of his comment, this is the distortion diagram of my baffle-less 12 cm midrange driver Peerless HDS PPB 4-25/8, crossed at 500 Hz to a H frame:

peer_neo distort.gif

This is an alternative method to suspend some drivers in the air:

peerneo3.jpg peerneo1.jpg

A dwarf compared to StigEriks system of course, but evolved from the same set of dipole genes ;)

Rudolf
 
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thisisvv

Member
Joined 2012
Rudolf said:
I am 100 % with what StigErik says. Just to underpin the importance of his comment, this is the distortion diagram of my baffle-less 12 cm midrange driver Peerless HDS PPB 4-25/8, crossed at 500 Hz to a H frame:

View attachment 292266

This is an alternative method to suspend some drivers in the air:

View attachment 292267 View attachment 292268

A dwarf compared to StigEriks system of course, but evolved from the same set of dipole genes ;)

Rudolf
Click to expand...


No worried luckily i bought an active crossover and i can change the crossover as my wish
 
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