Your impression is correct. However, there are really good kits (as mentioned above) or designs in the public domain that had been built and tested many times. Some of the latter have excellent resources and community support and superb results.
I have just finished building the Elsinores Mk V, designed and shared by Joe Rasmussen. It has been built by many DIYers all over the world and there is an active forum here on DIYAudio. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/97043-elsinore-project-thread.html
As you can tell from the "Mk V" the design went through 5 iterations and refinements. Joe's website is well documented - Elsinore Speakers DIY.
It paid off. While mine are still not broken in they sound really good, in fact better than my Soundlab electrostatics. They are about 94 db/watt efficient and don't need big solid state amps. Very affordable too - I think I spent about $1000 on all drivers, crossover components, wave guide and cabinets.
An ideal speaker would not. But we are so far away from actually being able to design & build an ideal speaker, that with the inevitable trade-offs any speaker is going to have its own "flavour".
dave
Linkwitz Orion does not use any class D at all. That speaker does not have the power amp's built in. Standard class AB amp's are recommended. Orion clones, typically found here are often paired with class D amp's.
The amplifier choice for the orions is yours to make, though it will require around 4-6 stereo pairs to drive (it's fully active, whereas a passive/active hybrid like the Nao Note makes much more sense)
... not that there's anything inherently wrong with modern Class D amplification. The Hypex and Crown Drivecore stuff are as good is gets for amplifiers.
I would disagree. Yes an ideal speaker is far, far away, but ideal within the limits of our hearing in 95% of scenarios... I think such speakers already exist, although a neutral room is necessary. Chasing the theoretically ideal and the audibly ideal are two different things IMO.
Last edited:
This is only an opinion. It makes more sense to you.
Passive crossover between mid and treble reduce cost and boxes.
I believe Gedlee and the Nao's designer claim no audible benefit to active here. SL (Orion's designer) argues otherwise, any prospective builder should respect his design if you are going to build Orion.
Linkwitz: "Crossovers may be implemented either as passive RLC networks, as active filters with operational amplifier circuits or with DSP engines and software. The only excuse for passive crossovers is their low cost. Their behavior changes with the signal level dependent dynamics of the drivers. They block the power amplifier from taking maximum control over the voice coil motion. They are a waste of time, if accuracy of reproduction is the goal."
Last edited:
I think that the real figure is more likely 10-20%.
I do have a rather nice room, which does give me an edge on most.
dave
By nice room, I assume you mean acoustically nice. Is there such a thing as a neutral room?
You can have a live room and directional speakers (ala Geddes) or you can have a dead room and omni speakers. It has been argued that both approaches will result in the same level of reverberation, and hence the same experience. Reality lies somewhere in between, where you have moderately live rooms and somewhat directional speakers.
But don't worry about all this.... break out the saw already.
But don't worry about all this.... break out the saw already.
Yes, acoustically nice. Designed from the get go with audio in mind.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/blogs/planet10/493-fall-listening-space.html
dave
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/blogs/planet10/493-fall-listening-space.html
dave
I have already exchanged more than one email with Troels. It only took him an hour or so to respond. Very accessible guy apparently.
I look forward to being able to comment on their sound. Probably June sometime.
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't suggesting altering the Orion design. I was simply saying that the "Eight Amp Requirement" makes the Orion a bit silly of a design from a cost-to-performance perspective. And yes, I meant "In my opinion" - which I assumed was obvious. As for the SL quote, SL is talking about theoretical advantages, not ones he's heard. I'm all for active crossovers in the bass and as a global EQ/all pass filter etc, but at some point it's gotta be about what we can hear.
SL has been a proponent of active crossovers even one the tweeter circuit, yet others have compared the fully active orions with passive crossover speakers like Salon 2s and Abbeys and... the end result... inconclusive at the very least, in favor of the alternatives in some cases. I get the theoretical advantages to active that SL is chasing, but his own evolution over the years has shown that he too eventually recognizes a difference between theory and audiblity. He hasn't compared a passive crossover to an active crossover in a bias controlled listening test at living room SPLs... he's compare theory.
I think we disagree on many things fundamentally, although I do respect your opinion and experience.
Measurably neutral, or "nice to my ears"?
Last edited:
are you going to listen to them or build them ?
beautiful speakers
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/AcapellaNEXT.htm
Last edited:
I think I am going to have to wait until they are built in order to listen to them 😛
No serious issues have been turned up via measurement. Many can attest to how they think the room sounds. Me, i'm spoiled by it.
dave
Here's a build OP may be interested in:
Tech Talk Forum - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com
Tech Talk Forum - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com
Well Linkwitz's comments suite his position don't they.
I now do both active and passive and they cost the same (the customer of course needs more amps with active and they are much harder to setup). I have built most of my speakers both ways and they come out amazingly similar. But the active does have a slight edge in some areas, especially now that the costs for the DSP have come down to unprecidented levels. WHen I first looked at active and concluded that "it wasn't worth the money" the crossovers were about 3000-5000$ - thats more than the speakers cost! Today an active DSP module costs about the same as the passive components. So times have changed. I think that active might be a little better, it is certainly a easier to do, but it is so close that as far as I am concerned if active costs any more than passive then it isn't worth it.
Actually I can understand this, just not in a way that you may like to spin it.
You see Audiophiles are a fickle lot, eventually users grow sick of the artifice they hear in any speaker, perhaps this even applies to your speakers or Orion on some level.
Orion has been around for some years now. Your message is relatively newer. Both Gedllee And Linkwitz labs promote speaker designs off the normal beaten track (even diy circles), both appeal to potential purchasers with perhaps an objectivist or scientific leaning.
I suspect many of your ex Orion owners will lean more towards Rock/Pop music rather than acoustic classical, whatever you may have come to believe. Certainly such listeners will consist of a healthy majority.
I expect your speakers are excellent too.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.