midrange recomendations - Page 2

tvrgeek · 23rd April 2012, 01:32 AM

My logic may not be obvious. If a modern mid won't reach to 5, that is what I am looking to know so I can come up with another plan. Most drivers have made big improvements in the last 10 years, but I guess mids are not the mainline product. I don't understand the "can't reach to 5K" when the entire single driver camp is depending on it. I don't have space for the compression driver idea. Seems reasonable but not in the mini-monitor constraint I have to work with.

Joseph Crowe · 23rd April 2012, 01:38 AM

Look at the B&C Coaxial midrange/high frequency compression driver.
B&C SPEAKERS
Klipsch community forums swear by them. 1-2 watts plenty.

RockLeeEV · 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvrgeek

My logic may not be obvious. If a modern mid won't reach to 5, that is what I am looking to know so I can come up with another plan. Most drivers have made big improvements in the last 10 years, but I guess mids are not the mainline product. .

Who said anything about being unable to reach 5khz?

It's about doing it

1) Pistonically
2) With DI that matches the tweeter
3) While simultaneously having unconstrained output at the bottom of its passband (Adequate sensitivity and mechanical displacement)
4) With decent center to center spacing

I named four drivers in my previous post which can certainly ""do it"" (the JX92S might want a bit of a notch filter near 9khz IIRC). But the 4-5khz crossover itself is what I take issue to. Why do it, when you're just compromising either off-axis response (both vertical and horizontal) or power handling.

There's excellent mids out there. But regardless of their performance on the forward axis, asking a mid to only have to cover around 300hz to 2khz just makes more sense... there's a reason the objectively best commercial 3-way speakers in the world pretty much all have crossovers near 2khz, and it isn't just because they're using midbasses as a midrange. It's just a generally good place for a crossover, even though in ""theory"" it makes the ""crossover audible"".. in execution things are different.

Hylle · 23rd April 2012, 08:06 AM

I gan recommend the Scan Speak Illuminator 12MU midrange, I have crossed that at exactly 5KHz with really good result. And It can work really low.
Actually I have made a small 2,5liter 2 way box with it, used with a 2004/602000 tweeter, and it works well. I will recommend for a fullrange system to high pass filter it, because you will break it with much lowfrequency.
The only drawback it that it is an expensive driver, but a good one. the best woofer in the illuminator range in my opinnion.

Silent Screamer · 23rd April 2012, 12:20 PM

I decided to go with a pair of the 12MU8731’s... Last couple of posts show what Hylle is talking about New New Speaker Project

Haven't used them yet but they look good on paper.

Face · 23rd April 2012, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvrgeek

My logic may not be obvious. If a modern mid won't reach to 5, that is what I am looking to know so I can come up with another plan. Most drivers have made big improvements in the last 10 years, but I guess mids are not the mainline product. I don't understand the "can't reach to 5K" when the entire single driver camp is depending on it. I don't have space for the compression driver idea. Seems reasonable but not in the mini-monitor constraint I have to work with.

It's not a matter of the driver being able to reach 5K, it's the matter of beaming being a concern.

The SS 12MU will be borderline at 5K IMO. The 10F would be a slightly better choice. And here's another contender: Eton Symphony 3" Midrange 3-401/A8/25 MG, Matched Pair: Madisound Speaker Store

tiefbassuebertr · 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvrgeek

I have not really followed midrange advances as I too have been misguided by the 6"- 1" expected current trend. I have reason to believe there are serious issues here so am looking for a 500 to 5K midrange of very low distortion and flat enough as to not require multiple networks to tame it. My goal is to keep the really high energy 2K to 4K out of the tweeter. Any thoughts on preferred drivers?

check out this midrange transducer's:
1) http://www.phlaudio.com/datasheets/17_pdf/1040_1050.pdf
2) http://www.phlaudio.com/datasheets/17_pdf/1160.pdf
3) http://www.phlaudio.com/datasheets/17_pdf/1500_1510.pdf
4) http://www.phlaudio.com/datasheets/17_pdf/1660_1670.pdf
5) http://www.phlaudio.com/datasheets/17_pdf/1120_1130.pdf (ultimate sounding)
6) http://www.fane-acoustics.com/downlo..._5MN_Specs.pdf
7) http://www.fane-acoustics.com/downlo..._8MN_Specs.pdf
8) http://bmsspeakers.com/fileadmin/bms...ta_2012-01.pdf
9) SP-200X
10) MSH-116/4
11) http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Delta_Pro_8B.pdf
12) http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Alpha_6A.pdf
13) http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Alpha_6CBMRA.pdf (no chamber necessary)
14) http://www.mccauley.com/component_overview.cfm?ID=111

If you like dome versions, check out this thread:
Dome midrange Transducer like ATC SM75/Volt VM752 without Ferrofluid-Overview wanted
Unfortunately very low efficiency and thus not my favorites.

The Audax transducer about
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...cone-midrange/
must actually be the predecessor of the mentioned PHL's

RockLeeEV · 23rd April 2012, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Face

It's not a matter of the driver being able to reach 5K, it's the matter of beaming being a concern.

The SS 12MU will be borderline at 5K IMO. The 10F would be a slightly better choice.

Do you feel the 10F can play down to 500hz?

Face · 23rd April 2012, 07:22 PM

As long as you don't expect concert level SPL's, yes. That's where I cross them in one of my designs.

I believe Zaph made a comment about being able to cross them as low as 350hz.

tvrgeek · 23rd April 2012, 07:30 PM

Why do it is related to some perceived, right or not, possible advantage I can get by using electronic crossovers and independent amps to reduce the possibility of excess excitation of the tweeter breakup modes caused by midrange harmonic distortion. I am looking at a specific problem. So I am exploring possibilities. I am looking at things like 3 inch drivers, not 6 or 8. The form factor needs to fit within the monitor size. I have been pretty unimpressed with what I see. Most of the "fr" are pretty ragged. The small Jordan may have some promise but it does not look easy to use.

23rd April 2012, 07:22 PM	#19
Face diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2007	As long as you don't expect concert level SPL's, yes. That's where I cross them in one of my designs. I believe Zaph made a comment about being able to cross them as low as 350hz. __________________ "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

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23rd April 2012, 01:32 AM	#11
tvrgeek diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Md	My logic may not be obvious. If a modern mid won't reach to 5, that is what I am looking to know so I can come up with another plan. Most drivers have made big improvements in the last 10 years, but I guess mids are not the mainline product. I don't understand the "can't reach to 5K" when the entire single driver camp is depending on it. I don't have space for the compression driver idea. Seems reasonable but not in the mini-monitor constraint I have to work with.

23rd April 2012, 01:38 AM	#12
Joseph Crowe diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Belleville Ontario, Canada	Look at the B&C Coaxial midrange/high frequency compression driver. B&C SPEAKERS Klipsch community forums swear by them. 1-2 watts plenty.

23rd April 2012, 08:06 AM	#14
Hylle diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Denmark	I gan recommend the Scan Speak Illuminator 12MU midrange, I have crossed that at exactly 5KHz with really good result. And It can work really low. Actually I have made a small 2,5liter 2 way box with it, used with a 2004/602000 tweeter, and it works well. I will recommend for a fullrange system to high pass filter it, because you will break it with much lowfrequency. The only drawback it that it is an expensive driver, but a good one. the best woofer in the illuminator range in my opinnion.

23rd April 2012, 12:20 PM	#15
Silent Screamer diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Sydney	I decided to go with a pair of the 12MU8731’s... Last couple of posts show what Hylle is talking about New New Speaker Project Haven't used them yet but they look good on paper.

23rd April 2012, 07:30 PM	#20
tvrgeek diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Md	Why do it is related to some perceived, right or not, possible advantage I can get by using electronic crossovers and independent amps to reduce the possibility of excess excitation of the tweeter breakup modes caused by midrange harmonic distortion. I am looking at a specific problem. So I am exploring possibilities. I am looking at things like 3 inch drivers, not 6 or 8. The form factor needs to fit within the monitor size. I have been pretty unimpressed with what I see. Most of the "fr" are pretty ragged. The small Jordan may have some promise but it does not look easy to use.