I just wanted to say that the wealth of info that you guys share here is of great value and judging from the high prices the high end audio industry pays for speakers that are poorly designed, I find it a shame that it isnt so easy to come up with a commercial endeavor to share your great designs.
Some of the high end designs measure so poorly and fetch 5 digits in cost.
just complimenting your work. feel free to comment on what you think commercial designs are targeting for a market and performance.
Some of the high end designs measure so poorly and fetch 5 digits in cost.
just complimenting your work. feel free to comment on what you think commercial designs are targeting for a market and performance.
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great idea...but so much competition. Plus, these peeps here are in it for the hobby and to help those with high asperations but low pocket money. You cant beat that no matter how you look at it.
Only bad thing for me visiting this site is that there are so many great designs...I have a hell of a time deciding what to build
Only bad thing for me visiting this site is that there are so many great designs...I have a hell of a time deciding what to build
SB Acoustics SB17MFC35-8 6" Poly Cone Woofer?
SB Acoustics SB17MFC35-8 6" Poly Cone Woofer: Madisound Speaker Store
Oh yes. That is very nice. Biggish Vas at 38L for reflex, but really ticks every box. Vented magnet, copper pole piece and low inductance of 0.15mH (if you believe it!) all for $65. The 5" is nice too with a Vas of 17L.
SB Acoustics SB15MFC30-8 5" Poly Cone Woofer: Madisound Speaker Store
Thanks VERY MUCH.
Edit: and a high Qms of 4.9 too. Excellent. That means it doesn't store energy. What's not to like?
SB Acoustics SB17MFC35-8 6" Poly Cone Woofer: Madisound Speaker Store
Oh yes. That is very nice. Biggish Vas at 38L for reflex, but really ticks every box. Vented magnet, copper pole piece and low inductance of 0.15mH (if you believe it!) all for $65. The 5" is nice too with a Vas of 17L.
SB Acoustics SB15MFC30-8 5" Poly Cone Woofer: Madisound Speaker Store
Thanks VERY MUCH.
Edit: and a high Qms of 4.9 too. Excellent. That means it doesn't store energy. What's not to like?
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Spinmonster could first consider offering his design to one of the retail DIYspeaker parts suppliers (i.e. Madisound, PE, etc..). Admittedly, some compromised may have to be made to accomodate those retailers product lines and driver choices, but at least it would be a low cost way to 'test the market' for a unique design.
Check out Madisound and Meniscusaudio in particular. A number of the kits offered there were developed by DIY'rs.
I had their interest for a while in my "Intimates" until they realized the driver's I had spec'd were in their 'old line' and they wanted to focus more on their more modern offerings. :-(
Check out Madisound and Meniscusaudio in particular. A number of the kits offered there were developed by DIY'rs.
I had their interest for a while in my "Intimates" until they realized the driver's I had spec'd were in their 'old line' and they wanted to focus more on their more modern offerings. :-(
I think this is a good example of the kind of challenge someone who wants to go into business faces.
Now, I am certainly not against anyone trying and wish anybody who wants to try the best of luck - but it is a VERY difficult undertaking, requiring a heaping helping of technical skill, marketing skill, business skill, business contacts, and capital! And even after all that, then the actual sales are completely out of one's hands, and let's fact it, even if you have the best design in the world, if it doesn't make a profit, then you're quickly out of business.
I have tremendous respect for someone willing to try, let alone someone able to actually make a living at it!
Having worked in the HiFi industry, I can assure you that very few people are making a huge amount of money. Running a business costs, distribution costs and shops cost.
You might be able to make a living selling over the web but unless you can find a incredible viral marketing strategy even that is going to cost for marketing.
Most of the time in developing a product is in negotiating with suppliers, working out how the finish you want can be achieved without costing to much, writing work instructions for assembly, writing a manual, testing the product works over production tolerances, ensuring it passes legislative requirements ( fortunately this is not to bad for a passive speaker ).
As a rough guide each company that work on a product needs a Mark up of 30 to 50% to be able to trade profitably. So say it costs £100 in parts and materials, you need to make £50 to be able to run your business, it now cost £150 you will probablynsell it to a distributor (once you can find one who is prepared to sell it) they will want another 40% it now cost £210. The shop will need another 50% to be able to stay in business, high end hifi doesn't move that fast and the staff cost money. So it now costs £315 suddenly your design dose not look so competitive with the competition.
I dare say this will get me a flame war but, I get annoyed buy the HiFi manufacturers are all ripping us off attitude. Yes there are a few that seem to be able to offer very average product for allot of money but even that cost them as they had to build the brand somehow. Most are only just profitable and currently a lot are not profitable at all. Yes if you put in many hours of work you can just about make something better than what you could buy for that money. If you don't want to put in the hours why do you assume just because the parts cost less than the product, it's a bad deal. Don't get me wrong I am all for DIY otherwise I would be here but DFY has it's place.
You see the same thing with software, it costs nothing to make why is it so expensive. That will be because it takes thousands of man hours to write, promote, distribute etc.
Please don't think I am saying you shouldn't try, you should but expect it to be difficult and don't be surprised if you find you can't make a profit there is much more to a successful business than a product that is good in one respect. Most people buy things with their eyes and their hearts not their ears and their minds. They are brand loyal and change resistant. Also good to your ears may be horrible to theirs.
Best of luck.
Andy
You might be able to make a living selling over the web but unless you can find a incredible viral marketing strategy even that is going to cost for marketing.
Most of the time in developing a product is in negotiating with suppliers, working out how the finish you want can be achieved without costing to much, writing work instructions for assembly, writing a manual, testing the product works over production tolerances, ensuring it passes legislative requirements ( fortunately this is not to bad for a passive speaker ).
As a rough guide each company that work on a product needs a Mark up of 30 to 50% to be able to trade profitably. So say it costs £100 in parts and materials, you need to make £50 to be able to run your business, it now cost £150 you will probablynsell it to a distributor (once you can find one who is prepared to sell it) they will want another 40% it now cost £210. The shop will need another 50% to be able to stay in business, high end hifi doesn't move that fast and the staff cost money. So it now costs £315 suddenly your design dose not look so competitive with the competition.
I dare say this will get me a flame war but, I get annoyed buy the HiFi manufacturers are all ripping us off attitude. Yes there are a few that seem to be able to offer very average product for allot of money but even that cost them as they had to build the brand somehow. Most are only just profitable and currently a lot are not profitable at all. Yes if you put in many hours of work you can just about make something better than what you could buy for that money. If you don't want to put in the hours why do you assume just because the parts cost less than the product, it's a bad deal. Don't get me wrong I am all for DIY otherwise I would be here but DFY has it's place.
You see the same thing with software, it costs nothing to make why is it so expensive. That will be because it takes thousands of man hours to write, promote, distribute etc.
Please don't think I am saying you shouldn't try, you should but expect it to be difficult and don't be surprised if you find you can't make a profit there is much more to a successful business than a product that is good in one respect. Most people buy things with their eyes and their hearts not their ears and their minds. They are brand loyal and change resistant. Also good to your ears may be horrible to theirs.
Best of luck.
Andy
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Yes, yes I rest my case...
I went to school for 3 years to master this and it newer got me a job in this industry. IT was the next choice but it is not really my interesst here in life. But now, IT is getting closer to music and there are opportunities. My self - I'm to old now - I'll just stay put amazed. The thing of today is to press the Redmond giant to give us UAC2 - built in.
Good luck to you all.
Brgds
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Ummmm... What?
Hmm, you were fast enough to capture that one...
My mind had a change after reading your inputs made after my last one.
Good luck to all trying to get into the business. Among you there will be astonishing good designs and designs that probably shouldn't have seen their first light.
Strange though, even in a forum as this one you can't be sure of who is trying to screew you. But again, that might be the way to better the designs - not ourselves.
Brgds
DIY speakers are an art unto themselves. Having worked for B&W I have had the luxury of seeing the amount of R&D that goes into their products.
Even though I wholeheartedly agree that most of the £18K price tag of the 802D's is taken up with R&D, dealership and profit. You can guarantee that the product will work "out of the box".
I have yet to see a finished DIY design that can compete with the High End speakers, not only B&W but the multitude of High End manufacturers.
IMO most DIY designs are trying, AND SUCCEEDING, in producing excellent designs for pennies.
Has anyone produced a reliable High End design that can realy compete and be reliably replicated.
I would rather spend £18K on something that I know will please my ears for years to come than spend £2K on some DIY project that will be disappointing.
I would love a pair of B&W Nautilus but at £60K I'd have to save for a few months.
Even though I wholeheartedly agree that most of the £18K price tag of the 802D's is taken up with R&D, dealership and profit. You can guarantee that the product will work "out of the box".
I have yet to see a finished DIY design that can compete with the High End speakers, not only B&W but the multitude of High End manufacturers.
IMO most DIY designs are trying, AND SUCCEEDING, in producing excellent designs for pennies.
Has anyone produced a reliable High End design that can realy compete and be reliably replicated.
I would rather spend £18K on something that I know will please my ears for years to come than spend £2K on some DIY project that will be disappointing.
I would love a pair of B&W Nautilus but at £60K I'd have to save for a few months.
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Hi Andy,
Well said, Many people are simply unthinking and very naive. I am sure they would not give their own hard work away for free.
DIY does have a tendency to attract those people who always want something for nothing, because they believe they are being ripped off. This attitude probably extends into every element of these peoples lives.
Without the traditional Hi-Fi market investing in Driver manufacturers the DIY market will be up the creek without a paddle, to put it mildly. For sure no major drive unit manufacturers relies on the specialist DIY market to keep them going!
Linkwitz acknowledges the cost of doing business:
DIY and the Cost of Doing Business
Well said, Many people are simply unthinking and very naive. I am sure they would not give their own hard work away for free.
DIY does have a tendency to attract those people who always want something for nothing, because they believe they are being ripped off. This attitude probably extends into every element of these peoples lives.
Without the traditional Hi-Fi market investing in Driver manufacturers the DIY market will be up the creek without a paddle, to put it mildly. For sure no major drive unit manufacturers relies on the specialist DIY market to keep them going!
Linkwitz acknowledges the cost of doing business:
DIY and the Cost of Doing Business
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