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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 10th April 2012, 11:27 PM   #1
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Default Need to upgrade the festival stereo

Hi there!
Last year we made a portable sound system for our camp at the Roskilde Festival. We thought it was a success, however, there are always room for minor/major improvement

For reference this is our system as: http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/7668/derpn.jpg
(Missing bass-reflex for the holes, and some finish on this pic).

This is the hardware:
2x P. Audio HP-12W (as bass)
2x Beyma 6Mi90E (as mid)
2x Monacor Ht-30 (as tweeter)
1x SDS-254 from Classdaudio.com
2x 170ah 12V Gel-batteries.
A lenovo and a mixer.

The main problem we found was that a lot of the sound was dissipated when people were standing in front of the system lowering the overall volume. So i'm thinking of raising the mids/tweeters. Any insights?

Second, we had slightly over saturated highs. We compensated by turning up the bass at the mixer. This is of course not optimal. The reason could be higher sensitivity at the tweeters (compared to the bass drivers), the quality of the tweeters, the tweeters working at their limit or simply perception.

We were playing at what i would consider tolerable distortion but clearly pushing it. Mind you, this is not HIFI, pop music and beer helps

The system is made of two individual speakers each at 8-ohm. (This is not the best considering the amplifier).

What i'm asking is: How do we proceed from here? Mind you a small budget and limited power - high sensitivity and efficiency is the name of the game naturally. I've been looking at a Billfitzmaurice Titan to use as a new sub(instead of the P. Audio) - this require some rebuilding but that's okay. Else we could double the amount of drivers and go 4-ohm (and get the dual benefits sorta). This requires a new crossover as well right?

Just looking for insights on how to proceed from here.

Sincerely Peter

Datasheets:
http://www.lindforsevent.se/manualer/211065.pdf
http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/6MI90E.pdf
http://www.monacor.dk/produkter/hoej...257&no_cache=1
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Old 11th April 2012, 12:07 AM   #2
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Horns?

That will increase your efficiency/sensitivity, and possibly also your cabinet size...

I've noticed a lot of PA type systems are horn based nowadays
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Old 11th April 2012, 09:04 AM   #3
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Well, that's where the Billfitzmaurice design come in However, i have no idea how i could convert my current mid/high drivers to a horn systems.
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Old 11th April 2012, 01:01 PM   #4
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Converting to horns would not be difficult. The difficulty is the expense and then devising a way to level the bass up at least near the output of the horns.

That said, I agree it would be the way to go.
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Old 11th April 2012, 02:23 PM   #5
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Always trying to reinvent the (square) wheel@diyAudio...
What I find.
1. Horns are not the best for touring.
2. The speakers look good, but at that height... maybe you can turn them inside as DJ monitoring. Use standard PA speakers on tubular aluminum mounting tripods.
3. You need a crossover, to balance the loudspeakers (can we call them that) 3-Ways right or add fixed/variable attenuator L-pads to the ill designed crossovers.
Here the JBL 4612B Cabaret Series Compact Sound Reinforcement 400 W, 97 dB SPL the same as the 4612OK with two JBL 8" 2118. Now people say this type of speaker is good but yours only has a woofer so you need to attenuate the tops. If you are not using a woofer loaded horn better you have a pair of woofers in each speaker, it's all a matter of compromises and you have a bunch coming from your stand point. Nothing you can not repair. 3-Ways are the most difficult speakers to design so what do you expect.
I would do 3-Ways for PA after a lot of testing, some times it takes years. I would look at (read PA) monitors instead, not hi-fi. You have to read more literature from JBL.
JBLPRO MANUAL-1 & 2 [PDF] Sound System Design Reference Manual pssdm_1 & pssdm_2 Chapter 4: An Outdoor Sound Reinforcement System
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/manuals/pssdm_1.pdf
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/manuals/pssdm_2.pdf
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File Type: jpg JBL 4612B Compact Sound Reinforcement 400 W, 97 dB SPL.jpg (53.0 KB, 117 views)
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Old 11th April 2012, 02:48 PM   #6
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The JBL 4612B PA speakers have a horn in them:

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/Cabaret_Series2.pdf
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Old 11th April 2012, 03:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LafeEric View Post
The JBL 4612B PA speakers have a horn in them:

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/Cabaret_Series2.pdf
Indeed, now you got me.
(Edit) Can you explain or is it the bi-radial tweeter?

Last edited by Inductor; 11th April 2012 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 11th April 2012, 03:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inductor View Post
Indeed, now you got me.
Not a complete (big) horn but shallow one.
Agreed, but that's kind of what I had in mind too.
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Old 11th April 2012, 04:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LafeEric View Post
Agreed, but that's kind of what I had in mind too.
You are an acknowledge person, what do you have in mind?
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Old 11th April 2012, 04:15 PM   #10
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Well, plastic horns are cheap, so I had no intention of being too particular. These seem a likely candidate:
Pyle Pro PH612 1" Screw-On Constant Radiation Horn 292-2572

The drivers could be a different matter, though a pair of D220Ti's could be had for about $100, and would deliver plenty of performance.

My real concern was the woofers, which have to be high efficiency or there is no point in having horns above.

Keeping the price point capped at about $65 each I see two likely candidates at PE:
Goldwood GW-1258 12" Pro Woofer 290-382
Dayton Audio PA310-8 12" Pro Woofer 295-032

If Datesta used ordinary cheap consumer woofers they are prolly around 87 db. Both of the above are around 97 db, which will give quite a dramatic increase in performance. Of course it must be made sure the enclosure is suitable, and a proper crossover must be figured out...

That's what I was thinking, for acceptable tunes on battery power at a 'cheap' price point...
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