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Old 7th August 2012, 02:46 PM   #1031
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Originally Posted by Pano View Post
There is a crude measurement of the 15A and a Gip driver here:

It's a start, we should be able to find better.
Pano the man who runs this site is named Aldo and lives in Italy currently making 15a horn reproductions. I'm very good friends with him and he should be coming to the states shortly, or at least that's what he told me last time we spoke. I could try to get him to make some measurements for you, but all of his equipment is made voicing by ear so I'm not sure how willing he'll be (hence the rough measurements on his site). He's a self taught engineer that makes "Western" equipment from pieces of Western gear, not to mention the best 15a horn replicas I've ever heard (even the paint used is a Western copy). I know at least three people that have 15a's (either replicas or the real deal) and could certainly take measurements if someone was to lend me the measuring gear haha, I don't have any of that equipment myself. They also back their systems will all Western gear so it would be an interesting measurement for you guys. I live in Northern Virginia if anyone is close by.

Last edited by cthcamaro67; 7th August 2012 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 7th August 2012, 04:42 PM   #1032
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there is a variety of decent freeware for computers that does FFT measurements, all you need is a mic. That can be had by a behringer measurement mic or one like it... and of course the old DIY Panasonic WM element, modified per Linkwitz and a straw for a mic body.

that will get you close enough especially given the bandwidth the horns + drivers. jes fine!

http://www.bearlabs.com -- Btw, I don't actually know anything, FYI -- every once in a while I say something that makes sense... ]
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Old 7th August 2012, 05:31 PM   #1033
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Sounds good to me, although I'd rather have a "professional" do it ie one of you guys so that I don't get rip to shreds on my measurement techniques. This will also allow some of you to listen to a fully western system...takers?
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Old 7th August 2012, 06:39 PM   #1034
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where? oh northern virgina, hmmm... wish I was free to travel. I'd go for it. think maybe Joe Roberts is currently within striking distance, not sure exactly.

Well you could ask about how to do the measurements...
...somebody might know.

But if you did all the same way there would at least be a comparison between them...

http://www.bearlabs.com -- Btw, I don't actually know anything, FYI -- every once in a while I say something that makes sense... ]
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Old 7th August 2012, 08:37 PM   #1035
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Default Western Electric 1928 is not the path conventional path.

It is simple to know why conventional box based speakers dominate the world and its size, not sound quality or price.

As for the future I feel sure that digital active cross over systems will make more and more of an impact in speakers and hope that people go open source with their speaker compensation algorithms, as otherwise when digital tech takes 3 turns (about 10 years) these will be irreparable and the companies producing them will look like fools, I also wont consider their products. Still for now these systems will beat most systems from before (as universal speakers), especially when they move up to 192Khz 24 bit resolution or higher.

I have never heard these Western Electric 1928 horn systems, but am a firm believer that lots of speakers, if not most HiFi speakers have a terrible sound. Some of the better and some of the worst I have ever heard have been based on a horn principle. I would not be surprised if the Western Electric 1928 horn systems within bandwidth constraints can easily outclass most conventional speakers, exponential and then tuned horns can sound wonderful, and the shape has always existed.

In my opinion loud speaker distortion is terribly high, and I actually wonder how HiFi systems can possibly cause the stereo illusion. I can only assume that the brain wants to be fooled. I was first amassed by the stereo illusion by Castle Speakers, Richmond 3 from the 1970's which used measured and matched drivers for each speaker. I am not sure this if this matching process is not an important issue for most DIY designs. It is to me not surprising that both the Quad ESL 57 and the Quad ESL 63 fully reconditioned is the most vivid stereo illusion I have ever heard for a lady singing.

Speakers are a set of compromises, I have read and from my understanding believe that as a system at domestic volumes, Electrostatic speakers can produce less distortion than a moving coil speaker possibly can, but with a cost of greater directional behavior and limited bass, unless partnered. Horns can produce the highest SPL, and theoretically closer to the distortion of electrostatics but often suffer from size issues much worse than electrostatics.

Conventional speakers are small and suit environments where size is the main factor often above price, they also make great universal speakers, so only one set of speakers are needed. Having 50 square meters per person is a luxury for most people in the Netherlands or the UK, and that means even electrostatics are too big for most people.

Electrostatics do spoil me to the distortion in most speakers though.


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Old 30th September 2012, 08:25 PM   #1036
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hi guys

here two Western Electric systems, i heard last week :

Aldo's system, in italy :


and Tim's system in Paris, france :



Last edited by angeloitacare; 30th September 2012 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 1st October 2012, 04:36 AM   #1037
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Originally Posted by DJNUBZ View Post
So I saw this video yesterday and it got me thinking. How far have we really come in the last 100 years in speaker design.

1928 Western Electric cinema speaker - YouTube

Although it is to big a project for me to do currently, I am curious to know how much better we could make this speaker with current modeling, design, materials and drivers.

Wouldn't be interesting to see how a version of this speaker, using all we have learned would compare to the original?1
yes western electrics made some fantasic speakers i own a pair of A7 Altec Lansing and a pair of model 18's made by Altec Lansing using the 16inch 604-8h mataray duplex driver
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Old 6th October 2012, 01:18 AM   #1038
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Default Don't laugh until you've tried it...

30-inch mouth diameter, 6 1/2 ft path length 85 Hz cut-off Atlas or University re-entrant horns from days of yore. Of course, it's too ridiculous to contemplate -;could never work! Except for the fact that I am foolish enough to enjoy them tri-amped with the Big 36" Yamaha organ woofs JA6002 on big open baffles w/ RR supertweets 5K and up. 101db and fabulous dynamics.. no X-over until 5kHz. No bass horn required. Yamaha bass o.b.s about 1 ft deep. Look like my double KLH Nines with different cover. Mid horns tuck nicely into the corners on the floor tilted up slightly. Only one approach of course, but for me, it solves the coherency problem. Big RCA/Simplex 300Hz horns did not blend with the 7 ft. tall double15" front-loaded bass horns which sounded weird much above 150-200 Hz so I tried the re-entrants as described, and they did the trick for me. Not on all music of course.. still got my old quads and Brit TLs and etc, and etc, and etc...
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Old 6th October 2012, 01:23 AM   #1039
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Pix please, we want to see.
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Old 6th October 2012, 01:34 AM   #1040
CLS is offline CLS  Taiwan
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JA6002, seems interesting

What I found on the net: aspect ???So-net???

From another site:
Click the image to open in full size.

(scroll down and you'll see it, quite some interesting stuff )

The 'ribs' on diaphragm remind me those on piano's sound board...

Last edited by CLS; 6th October 2012 at 01:40 AM.
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