I have decided to scrap my previous build thread, as the design parameters have changed dramatically in the last few weeks. Instead of trying to build a surround sound system, I am now going to build only two main speakers, and instead of going three way, I am now going four way.
I have also decided to up the budget and step it up another notch by going active instead of passive. I have a Ground Sound DCN28 digital crossover coming from Denmark very soon, and this will form the the nucleus for the new mains. My existing Rotel RB-1092 will be joined by 3 new 2 Channel D Class Rotel amps.
Drivers I am still undecided about, and would appreciate some assistance in determining the best combination for a full scale system.
I am leaning towards using the RAAL tweeters with some AudioTechnology or Accuton drivers. Probably more towards the AudioTechnology as the Accuton seem to dop off in the lower frequencies.
Box sizes I am totally open to virtually any reasonable size boxes, and I am thinking more of a 3 + 1 where the super low frequencies are in their own cabinet, and will be driven by the RB-1092 amp.
I want mind blowingly crystal clear sound and super tight low bass, so please suggest away. Being that I am blowing ~$10k on electronics alone, I won't be tryng to skimp on drivers, but I don't want to spend money for the sake of it, so if it is dear and worth it please suggest it, but if it is dear and not worth it please don't.
I have also decided to up the budget and step it up another notch by going active instead of passive. I have a Ground Sound DCN28 digital crossover coming from Denmark very soon, and this will form the the nucleus for the new mains. My existing Rotel RB-1092 will be joined by 3 new 2 Channel D Class Rotel amps.
Drivers I am still undecided about, and would appreciate some assistance in determining the best combination for a full scale system.
I am leaning towards using the RAAL tweeters with some AudioTechnology or Accuton drivers. Probably more towards the AudioTechnology as the Accuton seem to dop off in the lower frequencies.
Box sizes I am totally open to virtually any reasonable size boxes, and I am thinking more of a 3 + 1 where the super low frequencies are in their own cabinet, and will be driven by the RB-1092 amp.
I want mind blowingly crystal clear sound and super tight low bass, so please suggest away. Being that I am blowing ~$10k on electronics alone, I won't be tryng to skimp on drivers, but I don't want to spend money for the sake of it, so if it is dear and worth it please suggest it, but if it is dear and not worth it please don't.
Hi Silent,
let me suggest one crazy and totally high end system based on
no compromise philosophy. You'll need to build a really big box
in order to perform just about right, considering bass performance .
For the bass driver I'd choose:
http://www.audiotechnology.dk/iz.asp?id=4|a|127|||
For the upper bass-lower midrange:
http://www.audiotechnology.dk/iz.asp?id=4|a|124|||
For midrange get the best dome for the job, DYNAUDIO D52AF
which is really an older product but miles ahead from what nowadays
is offered by some so called high end producers.
You could find a pair of these domes as NOS but probably is going
to take some time to actually find one. There are many second hand
ones in not very good condition or fried and this is exactly what you
should be looking for, a fried one.
These you can get for pretty cheap and then send it back to manufacturer
to provide you with a new pair in exchange for your old one. Since money
is not really an issue, you could easily pay couple of hundreds of dollars for
a new pair.
This is a service they provide for all of their former diy customers. Very
important, don't bother acquiring the premium line of drivers, so called
ESOTAR series because you don't want your money thrown away just
for the sake of a fact that there are people who are not satisfied unless
they pay top dollar for a product. Trust me on this one.
The same holds true for the tweeters. Get a second hand pair of
DYNAUDIO D21/2 and do the same thing just like with D52 AF's.
These are 3/4'' and have a better off axis response compared to larger
domes and are high end as it gets.
All said is strictly to be seen as IMO and not otherwise.
Wish you all the best in finding your own system made in heaven !
Thanks for your suggestions Lojzek any particular reason why you would look at the Flexunits 12 B 77 25 10 over the Sandwich cone?
From what I read the Kap would produce a tighter base.
Also wondered if this would be the best driver for the super low base or if there is something better suited Flexunits 15 E 102 25 10
From what I read the Kap would produce a tighter base.
Also wondered if this would be the best driver for the super low base or if there is something better suited Flexunits 15 E 102 25 10
The RAAL 70-20XR is listed as OEM on the RAAL website RAAL: Products
Any particular reason for choosing it over say the RAAL Lazy Ribbon 9"?
Any particular reason for choosing it over say the RAAL Lazy Ribbon 9"?
Ok just answered my own question as to why not the Lazy Ribbon 9"... I would need a concert hall with 20 drivers to get it to work!
The RAAL 70-20XR is only available to OEM's that are willing to sign an NDA, but the 140-15D looks quite nice with an SPL of 95dB.
Unless anyone has a particular reason why I shouldn't go this way consider the tweeter selected.
The RAAL 70-20XR is only available to OEM's that are willing to sign an NDA, but the 140-15D looks quite nice with an SPL of 95dB.
Unless anyone has a particular reason why I shouldn't go this way consider the tweeter selected.
Not sure. RAAL suggests 4th order L-R @ 2800 Hz as the minimum for the 70-10. If thats accurate then it would be fine for a 3-way but you should try and get opinions from those that have used it.
I've only heard the 70-20XR in these speakers.
I've only heard the 70-20XR in these speakers.
thanks dabbler I was just looking at my local suppliers website at the two different models
RAAL_70-10XR Ribbon Tweeter
RAAL_140-15D Ribbon Tweeter
And there is little difference price wise between them ($1398 vs $1544) other than better CTC if using dual mids, I thnk the frequency response of the 140-15D looks slighly more apealing.
I think I would be hard pressed to go wrong if I bought either model most people who have heard them are very impressed.
They both seem to have that level of clarity I am looking for.
RAAL_70-10XR Ribbon Tweeter
RAAL_140-15D Ribbon Tweeter
And there is little difference price wise between them ($1398 vs $1544) other than better CTC if using dual mids, I thnk the frequency response of the 140-15D looks slighly more apealing.
I think I would be hard pressed to go wrong if I bought either model most people who have heard them are very impressed.
They both seem to have that level of clarity I am looking for.
Last edited:
They are outstanding tweeters. Just make sure you go for amorphous core if cost in no object.
Dollars are still an object… but not enough to stop me buying the amorphous core. 
I don’t mind spending the extra money as long as there is value in it, and really when you’re spending $1300 another $200 is not that much more for the gain.
They also charge a bit more for a matched pair, which again unless that is just another way for the reseller to make a bit more profit I will be going that way as well.
I don’t mind spending the extra money as long as there is value in it, and really when you’re spending $1300 another $200 is not that much more for the gain.
They also charge a bit more for a matched pair, which again unless that is just another way for the reseller to make a bit more profit I will be going that way as well.
Spoke with the local Raal reseller today and he had some interesting things to say, his preference was towards the 140-15D of all the models he had tried in the 9".
He also mentioned that he would be inclined to use them in conjuction with some 6.8uF Mundorf Silver / oil caps.
So early next week I will be looking into making a purchase.
My DCN28 turned up today but I wasn't home to recieve it,so working from home tomorrow to make sure I'm here to collect it. Very excited...
Thinking as an interim measure I might put the Raal tweeters with some 10" Vifa coated paper cones I have in the shed in an open baffle just until I can decide on what drivers to buy.
He also mentioned that he would be inclined to use them in conjuction with some 6.8uF Mundorf Silver / oil caps.
So early next week I will be looking into making a purchase.
My DCN28 turned up today but I wasn't home to recieve it,so working from home tomorrow to make sure I'm here to collect it. Very excited...
Thinking as an interim measure I might put the Raal tweeters with some 10" Vifa coated paper cones I have in the shed in an open baffle just until I can decide on what drivers to buy.
Hi Silent,
no particular reason regarding basic vs. sandwich.
I think you mentioned having sim software, so there you can see your
options. Basic and sandwich 12'' drivers seem to differ slightly in ported
passive box. About 95 and 118 liters would provide you F3 = 34/35 Hz.
15'' driver in 116 liters ported, F3=39 Hz
Of course, there aren't boundaries in choosing a box type and
technology to control it. You can do whatever makes you happy.
The DCN28 turned up this morning and I quickly unpacked it like a kid on Christmas day to get my first glimpse before heading out the door to go to work. First impressions is that it seems very sturdy and well made, with a well laid out back panel that isn’t cramped.
Robert at Ground Sound has been a real pleasure to deal with and extremely helpful. If the unit performs as well as I expect it will, I would be happy to recommend his product, but let’s hear it first.
I am also set on the Raal 140-15D now and will be ordering a set of the good ones probably on Monday, so that just leaves me with main drivers to sort out. Please keep the suggestions coming.
I have some ideas regarding how I want the mains to look, but I am open to suggestions on the type of cabinets I should use. Transmission line has been in my thoughts over the last 6 months and wondering if perhaps that might be a way to go for the deep bass.
I can pretty much fabricate any cabinet design as long as it produces the results.
Robert at Ground Sound has been a real pleasure to deal with and extremely helpful. If the unit performs as well as I expect it will, I would be happy to recommend his product, but let’s hear it first.
I am also set on the Raal 140-15D now and will be ordering a set of the good ones probably on Monday, so that just leaves me with main drivers to sort out. Please keep the suggestions coming.
I have some ideas regarding how I want the mains to look, but I am open to suggestions on the type of cabinets I should use. Transmission line has been in my thoughts over the last 6 months and wondering if perhaps that might be a way to go for the deep bass.
I can pretty much fabricate any cabinet design as long as it produces the results.
Collected enough parts now I can at least make a start on the speakers...
Found some bits and pieces of left overs in the box where I was keeping the Vifa drivers from the first lot of speakers I built in the 90's and never used.
For the time being I will use the 10" Vifa drivers (M26WR-09-08 - 8ohm) with the Raal tweeters.
Once I get the hang of the digital crossover in 2 way mode. I will start introducing new drivers (not sure what yet) and retire the Vifa 10"'s.
Still missing one channel as the RB-1092 & RB-1091 are only 3 (2 + 1) channels.
I have an anologue 5 channel RMB-1075 in storage about 1000klms aways, but am somewhat reluctant to use it as it isn't of the calibre of the Class D amps.
The suggestions was made that digital amps might be a bit harsh for the tweeters so any suggestions on non digital amps of decent quality for the tweeters?
Found some bits and pieces of left overs in the box where I was keeping the Vifa drivers from the first lot of speakers I built in the 90's and never used.
For the time being I will use the 10" Vifa drivers (M26WR-09-08 - 8ohm) with the Raal tweeters.
Once I get the hang of the digital crossover in 2 way mode. I will start introducing new drivers (not sure what yet) and retire the Vifa 10"'s.
Still missing one channel as the RB-1092 & RB-1091 are only 3 (2 + 1) channels.
I have an anologue 5 channel RMB-1075 in storage about 1000klms aways, but am somewhat reluctant to use it as it isn't of the calibre of the Class D amps.
The suggestions was made that digital amps might be a bit harsh for the tweeters so any suggestions on non digital amps of decent quality for the tweeters?
Attachments
Thanks Shaun, not quite what I set out to build but you get that.
Spent the night looking into amplifiers, in particular Primare amps. Since I am going to this level of effort I think I might try what I have first and get the RMB-1075 from interstate first.
I really need to get the most out of what I have first, then determine what I need to make it sound even better.
So I can use four out of the five channels from the analogue amp that will at least give me a base to work from.
Spent the night looking into amplifiers, in particular Primare amps. Since I am going to this level of effort I think I might try what I have first and get the RMB-1075 from interstate first.
I really need to get the most out of what I have first, then determine what I need to make it sound even better.
So I can use four out of the five channels from the analogue amp that will at least give me a base to work from.
After receiving no response from Per Skanning I decided give Audio Technology drivers a miss…
So today I placed an order for 10 x 12MU/4731T00 ScanSpeak midrange drivers.
Only need 4 at the moment (2 per main in parallel) but got a good deal for buying 10, so will sit on the others for the centre and rears.
They seem to have a very flat response from 200 to 4000, so at least in theory they should sound alright.
Not sure just yet if I will use ScanSpeak for any of the mid woofers or woofers, as I have heard good things about the Peerless drivers for sub frequencies.
So today I placed an order for 10 x 12MU/4731T00 ScanSpeak midrange drivers.
Only need 4 at the moment (2 per main in parallel) but got a good deal for buying 10, so will sit on the others for the centre and rears.
They seem to have a very flat response from 200 to 4000, so at least in theory they should sound alright.
Not sure just yet if I will use ScanSpeak for any of the mid woofers or woofers, as I have heard good things about the Peerless drivers for sub frequencies.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.