Cut out the neck piece tonight and I have been having second thoughts about the stand idea. The original intention was to isolate the top cabinet completely from the bottom cabinet.
But I am now leaning towards lightly mounting the top cabinet to the bottom cabinet.
The method behind the madness.... In the photo below you can see a circle in the middle of the neck, I am thinking of mounting a wooden shaft with a rubber sleave over it through the neck.
The shaft would then be solidly mounted to the bottom cabinet, being that the only part that will really be touching the top cabinet will be the top part of the shaft, the opportunity to transfer bulk vibration to the top cabinet is minimised.
Also by pivoting at this point it would give me the opportunity to fine tune the backward and forward movement of the top cabinet for proper listening position.
Various low touch methods could be used for proper top cabinet positioning.
But I am now leaning towards lightly mounting the top cabinet to the bottom cabinet.
The method behind the madness.... In the photo below you can see a circle in the middle of the neck, I am thinking of mounting a wooden shaft with a rubber sleave over it through the neck.
The shaft would then be solidly mounted to the bottom cabinet, being that the only part that will really be touching the top cabinet will be the top part of the shaft, the opportunity to transfer bulk vibration to the top cabinet is minimised.
Also by pivoting at this point it would give me the opportunity to fine tune the backward and forward movement of the top cabinet for proper listening position.
Various low touch methods could be used for proper top cabinet positioning.
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Hi SS,
Looking good.
Did you think perhaps of having the metal pipe going into the upper d'appolito speaker horizontal in alignment, so you can move it forwards and back for phase alignment? Your speaker has some reminisences of the Wilson WAMM with metal pipes to hold various units in position. Do you think that just one metal tube is enough to hold it firmly in position, or might some resonances move it a little when the bass unit gets going?
Also, do is there scope for tilting the d'appolito upper speaker to adjust for preferred listening position?
Thanks for your support at last weekends DIY meet.
Greg
Looking good.
Did you think perhaps of having the metal pipe going into the upper d'appolito speaker horizontal in alignment, so you can move it forwards and back for phase alignment? Your speaker has some reminisences of the Wilson WAMM with metal pipes to hold various units in position. Do you think that just one metal tube is enough to hold it firmly in position, or might some resonances move it a little when the bass unit gets going?
Also, do is there scope for tilting the d'appolito upper speaker to adjust for preferred listening position?
Thanks for your support at last weekends DIY meet.
Greg
Hey Greg, Phase / time alignment won’t be a problem with the DCN28, as it has correction facilities built in. I am still not completely happy with the neck and might do a bit more shaping tonight. If I use a 50mm port (2” router cutter coming) instead of a 57mm port I can reduce the port length by about 60mm, which means it won’t have to the neck extend back so far, and the neck can be positioned more underneath the top cabinet.
I figure just a couple of degrees tilt forward should be enough for virtually any size room, If I start with the tweeter vertical I don’t see a need to tilt it back, and will only require a tiny amount of forward tilt for smaller rooms. Very hard to describe how it will work until I get it going, but it should work on the same principal as the noddy dog in the picture below, but instead of being free to move it would be secured using something like these buckles and be locked into position.
Kicking myself now I didn’t bring my Rotel 1092 to check it against Joes excellent valve amps and the ML, maybe next time.
I figure just a couple of degrees tilt forward should be enough for virtually any size room, If I start with the tweeter vertical I don’t see a need to tilt it back, and will only require a tiny amount of forward tilt for smaller rooms. Very hard to describe how it will work until I get it going, but it should work on the same principal as the noddy dog in the picture below, but instead of being free to move it would be secured using something like these buckles and be locked into position.
Kicking myself now I didn’t bring my Rotel 1092 to check it against Joes excellent valve amps and the ML, maybe next time.
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Hi Paul, you can bring your rotel over, we can connect to back of ML and compare vs peachtree. I assume it fits in your motorcycle backpack? The ML 532H has single ended inputs as well.
If you consider that one day you might use it as a normal passive speaker without biamplification, perhaps it would be good to add in a feature so you can physically time align your new speaker. I wasn't considering ordinary amplification for mine, but as it turned out, I am not using it triamplified now.
Greg
If you consider that one day you might use it as a normal passive speaker without biamplification, perhaps it would be good to add in a feature so you can physically time align your new speaker. I wasn't considering ordinary amplification for mine, but as it turned out, I am not using it triamplified now.
Greg
Not sure the speakers will live in those cabinets long enough to worry about a passive conversion 
Pulling the crossover out of the Cremona this weekend, nearly tempted to try wire it up active to do an active / passive comparision before putting it back.
Hmmm just thinking I could build a box for the crossover and run it external like you and run the wires in through the lower port...
Pulling the crossover out of the Cremona this weekend, nearly tempted to try wire it up active to do an active / passive comparision before putting it back.
Hmmm just thinking I could build a box for the crossover and run it external like you and run the wires in through the lower port...
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I couldn't wait and already have
While watching TV I unplugged one of my speakers and put the terminals on the mid (figuring it is tv no real highs or lows) even in my hand it sounded good, so can't wait to get them in a cabinet with those RAAL's
Hoping to get some cabinet building done this weekend, might take me a while to finish but my router guides turned up yesterday, so now I can start.
While watching TV I unplugged one of my speakers and put the terminals on the mid (figuring it is tv no real highs or lows) even in my hand it sounded good, so can't wait to get them in a cabinet with those RAAL's
Hoping to get some cabinet building done this weekend, might take me a while to finish but my router guides turned up yesterday, so now I can start.
Happy to report that work bench is nearly done, but the delay has given me chance to think over my over ambitious choice of cabinets.
So before I fire up the router in anger I thought I might just put the question out there... Do you foresee any resonance issues with the purely cosmetic add ons at the back?
I could make it very boring without any additional shaping if there is a risk of it vibrating, or I could scale back the cabinet to something in between like this.
Keen to know your thoughts...
So before I fire up the router in anger I thought I might just put the question out there... Do you foresee any resonance issues with the purely cosmetic add ons at the back?
I could make it very boring without any additional shaping if there is a risk of it vibrating, or I could scale back the cabinet to something in between like this.
Keen to know your thoughts...
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Lots and none...
I have semi finished the work bench so I could start construction (only a couple of non essentials draws to go).
I then had to make a router template jig to hold the template in place while I cut the speaker slices.
After making the first cut, I then realised it was going to create so much saw dust that I had to then work out a way of keeping the job area clean to make all the necessary cuts in one go, without removing the donor board from the jig holder.
Then I had to build a separator (built on the Thien baffle design) to separate the saw dust from the air so it wouldn't kill the vacuum cleaner with debris when I buy it.
Still need to purchase a vacuum cleaner and some flexible plastic ducting and I am ready to start again.
As you can see from the template in the picture this is not my "ugly man" cabinet, I am trying a simpler cabinet design first just to get some experience with the router.
I have semi finished the work bench so I could start construction (only a couple of non essentials draws to go).
I then had to make a router template jig to hold the template in place while I cut the speaker slices.
After making the first cut, I then realised it was going to create so much saw dust that I had to then work out a way of keeping the job area clean to make all the necessary cuts in one go, without removing the donor board from the jig holder.
Then I had to build a separator (built on the Thien baffle design) to separate the saw dust from the air so it wouldn't kill the vacuum cleaner with debris when I buy it.
Still need to purchase a vacuum cleaner and some flexible plastic ducting and I am ready to start again.
As you can see from the template in the picture this is not my "ugly man" cabinet, I am trying a simpler cabinet design first just to get some experience with the router.
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Silent-
Sitting here in San Diego enjoying reading about your project. It seems you've lost your inspiration with the loudspeaker project and switched to building the worlds best dust collector... hehehe
Your (loudspeaker) design sure looks like a the Wilson Audio Alexandra with upgraded drivers but without the time delay individual cabinetry. You will have an advantage over the Alexandra with the active crossover. Your system should really be impressive when you're done. I'd recommend building some easy rectangular cabinets to do your initial testing. Once you're happy with that then you can go on to building more exotic cabinets. You might find your design changes (i.e. speaker spacing/orientation) during this initial testing.
Sitting here in San Diego enjoying reading about your project. It seems you've lost your inspiration with the loudspeaker project and switched to building the worlds best dust collector... hehehe
Your (loudspeaker) design sure looks like a the Wilson Audio Alexandra with upgraded drivers but without the time delay individual cabinetry. You will have an advantage over the Alexandra with the active crossover. Your system should really be impressive when you're done. I'd recommend building some easy rectangular cabinets to do your initial testing. Once you're happy with that then you can go on to building more exotic cabinets. You might find your design changes (i.e. speaker spacing/orientation) during this initial testing.
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Being a perfectionist I can get past the dust extraction system, to allow myself to get back on to the speakers. Which is really annoying as I really want to hear them.
I made the decision a little while ago to start simple and develop the system from there. Since this is my first crack at active there is a massive learning curve I have yet to tackle.
So the first incarnation of the speakers will be in the form of an open baffle. I am also still waiting on the amps I want to use for the tweeters to become commercially available.
I made the decision a little while ago to start simple and develop the system from there. Since this is my first crack at active there is a massive learning curve I have yet to tackle.
So the first incarnation of the speakers will be in the form of an open baffle. I am also still waiting on the amps I want to use for the tweeters to become commercially available.
Determined to make some headway today, I decided this day wasn't going to end without me listening to my new Raal tweeters.
So that meant a few items needed to be attended to. The first was to make up a couple of XLR to RCA cables without the 1 pin and 3 pin crossed.
Having made some temporary leads, I next turned my attention to soldering some wires on speakers. Currently the two 8 ohm 12MU's are sitting on top of the tv stand wired is parralel.
Had a bitch of a time trying to solder some wires on the Raal 140-15D tweeter, so much so the wires are currently just poked in the holes with a 8.2uF cap inline on the positive.
I also went out to the shed and grabbed one of the 10" Vifa paper cone drivers I didn't use from a previous project.
Plugged them all into an old Rotel analog amp and set about trying to work out how to use the software that came with the Ground Sound DCN28.
I started with the mids first since they would be more robust should I muck something up. Once I got them working ok I added the tweeter and got that sorted reasonably well.
Lastly I configured the Vifa woofer, which turned out to be a massive dissapointment as it bearly made a peep. None of the drivers are currently mounted and perhaps the lack of oomph in the bass can be somewhat put down to that.
So with one 3 way speaker roughly made what are my listening impressions?
Well the first thing I noticed was just how detailed the Raal was. I am already hearing things I have never heard before, it seems to effortlessly reveal detail on the tracks.
After some playing around I found a reasonable balance between the mids and the tweeter. As for going active... the ease of which I can change things makes trying different combinations a pure joy compared to the component swap I had to do last time.
Still have a lot of features to learn / understand in the software, but for a knocked up unmounted 3 way speaker it sounds pretty damn good. Now looking forward to hearing a pair of them properly mounted on a baffle / speaker box.
So that meant a few items needed to be attended to. The first was to make up a couple of XLR to RCA cables without the 1 pin and 3 pin crossed.
Having made some temporary leads, I next turned my attention to soldering some wires on speakers. Currently the two 8 ohm 12MU's are sitting on top of the tv stand wired is parralel.
Had a bitch of a time trying to solder some wires on the Raal 140-15D tweeter, so much so the wires are currently just poked in the holes with a 8.2uF cap inline on the positive.
I also went out to the shed and grabbed one of the 10" Vifa paper cone drivers I didn't use from a previous project.
Plugged them all into an old Rotel analog amp and set about trying to work out how to use the software that came with the Ground Sound DCN28.
I started with the mids first since they would be more robust should I muck something up. Once I got them working ok I added the tweeter and got that sorted reasonably well.
Lastly I configured the Vifa woofer, which turned out to be a massive dissapointment as it bearly made a peep. None of the drivers are currently mounted and perhaps the lack of oomph in the bass can be somewhat put down to that.
So with one 3 way speaker roughly made what are my listening impressions?
Well the first thing I noticed was just how detailed the Raal was. I am already hearing things I have never heard before, it seems to effortlessly reveal detail on the tracks.
After some playing around I found a reasonable balance between the mids and the tweeter. As for going active... the ease of which I can change things makes trying different combinations a pure joy compared to the component swap I had to do last time.
Still have a lot of features to learn / understand in the software, but for a knocked up unmounted 3 way speaker it sounds pretty damn good. Now looking forward to hearing a pair of them properly mounted on a baffle / speaker box.
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