So, about four years ago I built a Chipamp gainclone and a pair of One Pi speakers. I'm still happy with them but starting to itch for something a bit more intense.
Music-wise, I listen to a variety of stuff, but more heavily on the rock side than anything else. Current rotation includes Chapel Club, M83, Moby, and the Joy Formidable, though I also listen to a moderate amount of classical and opera. Volume levels are generally moderate to keep neighbors happy.
For this build, I'm willing to spend up to around $1000 for a pair of speakers, maybe a hair more. I'd prefer to do something that will work reasonably well with my current amp, though I'm thinking about a new build there too.
My fabrication skills and gear are pretty good. My technical knowledge of design principles and component selection are pretty limited, so I'd prefer to follow a well-documented design by the numbers.
Given the choice, I'll lean towards a smaller speaker over a larger one, though tall is less of a problem than wide.
Edit: When I say "intense," basically I mean something more than the One π's I have now. They're great for an inexpensive small speaker, but I'm looking to go for something with fewer compromises on cost/size.
SO, any suggestions of what I might like to consider and why?
Music-wise, I listen to a variety of stuff, but more heavily on the rock side than anything else. Current rotation includes Chapel Club, M83, Moby, and the Joy Formidable, though I also listen to a moderate amount of classical and opera. Volume levels are generally moderate to keep neighbors happy.
For this build, I'm willing to spend up to around $1000 for a pair of speakers, maybe a hair more. I'd prefer to do something that will work reasonably well with my current amp, though I'm thinking about a new build there too.
My fabrication skills and gear are pretty good. My technical knowledge of design principles and component selection are pretty limited, so I'd prefer to follow a well-documented design by the numbers.
Given the choice, I'll lean towards a smaller speaker over a larger one, though tall is less of a problem than wide.
Edit: When I say "intense," basically I mean something more than the One π's I have now. They're great for an inexpensive small speaker, but I'm looking to go for something with fewer compromises on cost/size.
SO, any suggestions of what I might like to consider and why?
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I want to do something like that , but with a little cone that allows for some extra-excursion when I crank the volume without breaking ...or without ferrofluid 
To keep also efficiency aligned , I'm planning to reuse two dead woofers as
a brand new waveguide for the little mid-tweeter .
I think I'll be using , of course , a TB with phase plug
Still undecided about the woofer ...
Wallet's empty
To keep also efficiency aligned , I'm planning to reuse two dead woofers as
a brand new waveguide for the little mid-tweeter .
I think I'll be using , of course
, a TB with phase plugStill undecided about the woofer ...
Wallet's empty
You'll never get anywhere with that attitude.
Heh. To be clear, it's floor space I'm most concerned with. The Pi speakers I have now have a footprint of about 8.5"x12". That's fine, a little larger would be fine, and if they're five feet tall, that would be fine too.
@Richard & Pico: Sounds interesting, but I'm looking for a good proven design.
Where's sreten when you need him?
Looking at Wayne's offerings I'd think you'd only need to go to the three pi to begin to benefit the way some of us here may be thinking. They are a little larger but I think it would be worth it. You could probably even go a little narrower in the cabinet if you were doing them yourself.
Looking at Wayne's offerings I'd think you'd only need to go to the three pi to begin to benefit the way some of us here may be thinking. They are a little larger but I think it would be worth it. You could probably even go a little narrower in the cabinet if you were doing them yourself.
Hi,
Hmmm........
I wonder how the pi 1 speaker gets round baffle step .....
Seems the groundplane measurements sidesteps it .....
Baffle Step Compensation
Should make a big difference to the presentation.
Stentorians perhaps ?
Speaker Design Works
rgds, sreten.
Hmmm........
I wonder how the pi 1 speaker gets round baffle step .....
Seems the groundplane measurements sidesteps it .....
Baffle Step Compensation
Should make a big difference to the presentation.
Stentorians perhaps ?
Speaker Design Works
rgds, sreten.
Optimistic, maybe.
Perhaps sansbury could tell us whether his speakers 'sound like' small speakers. Do they give a natural weight to vocals, for example?
Hi,
Not really. The pi one has no baffle step compensation.
It cannot given its sensitivity and the bass drivers specs.
rgds, sreten.
Here's what I'm looking for: I chose the 1Pi because I was on a somewhat tight budget. The parts, wood, etc. cost me around $225 give or take.
What I want to know is, if I move that budget target up substantially, how much better can I get?
As a point of comparison, one design I've looked at is Joe Rasmussen's Elsinore project. That looks like it *might* come in around the high end of my parts budget. But that's kind of where my head is.
Have you compared the 1Pi to any commercial designs ?
It's just that I quite like the look of the drivers and have been considering building something similar. If they have no BSC then i'd expect them to have very little bass, and as Alan says, thin sounding vocals.
Could you describe any strengths or weaknesses they may have ?
It's just that I quite like the look of the drivers and have been considering building something similar. If they have no BSC then i'd expect them to have very little bass, and as Alan says, thin sounding vocals.
Could you describe any strengths or weaknesses they may have ?
Hi,
I suggest you build this kit
Visaton - Lautsprecher und Zubehör, Loudspeakers and Accessories
Drivers used are high quality and appear to be correctly filtered.
For a proper rock music speaker you need a capable woofer and
this one surely is.
For delicate midrange and high frequencies there come in the great
domes G50 and G 25. This kit will give you fine bass performance
in a medium sized enclosure.
Your better half shouldn't give you hard time with this one
The only thing you may not want to pursue is the esthetics of the box presented,
IMO. I'd change it for sure, but this is only a matter of taste, I guess.
The impedance looks pretty benign with 6 ohms minimum, so your amp
should suffice for not very loud music sessions.
My listening experience is limited, so I'm not the greatest reviewer. They have very little bass punch (no surprise), and they're extremely sensitive to listening position. I have them on the floor, and the closer you get to lying flat on the floor about five feet in front of them, they better they sound. Alan's description sounds very reasonable. They might sound a lot better on stands or hanging on a wall like monitors.
One issue I have is that there is no "good" place for me to put speakers where I'm living right now. Neither of my rooms are square, I can't get anywhere near a corner or wall, and no matter where I put them, I'll usually be listening well off-axis. I expect to move to somewhere more spacious within the next year or so, though, so I'm not looking for a solution for the current space I'm in. I am however looking for something that has a more room-filling sound for lack of a better term.
Edit: One thing I will say for the 1Pis, they can play far louder without falling apart than any speaker of similar size I've heard. I've only taken them near the edge of my amp's output once or twice, and it was almost deafening, and they were still very composed. It gets a little tinny sounding, but in some ways I find them to be much more enjoyable the louder they get.
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Your better half shouldn't give you hard time with this one
thing you may not want to pursue is the esthetics of the box presented,
IMO. I'd change it for sure, but this is only a matter of taste, I guess.
Ha! I'll look into that one more for sure. I'm the only half right now, so my opinion is the only one that matters
You've got those bookshelf speakers on the floor?
Man... that alone is enough to basically ruin even the finest of bookshelf style speakers.
Based on Sreten's investigation of them, having probably no BSC. My personal opinion is that you would do better to use the "budget" to get the speakers on some nice steady stands. More than likely the tweeter should be at or above ear level, or, with the speakers inverted, it can be at or below and probably work acceptably well. Then, investigate baffle step compensation and experiment with applying this to the existing speakers. Funds remaining after stands and BSC correction should go towards an active sub, with an active x-over probably in the 60hz range to keep the sub hidden but improve the dynamic and bandwidth capabilities of the system.
I think the best way for you to improve on what you have, given the budget, is NOT to start fresh, but to simply improve on what you have.
Man... that alone is enough to basically ruin even the finest of bookshelf style speakers.
Based on Sreten's investigation of them, having probably no BSC. My personal opinion is that you would do better to use the "budget" to get the speakers on some nice steady stands. More than likely the tweeter should be at or above ear level, or, with the speakers inverted, it can be at or below and probably work acceptably well. Then, investigate baffle step compensation and experiment with applying this to the existing speakers. Funds remaining after stands and BSC correction should go towards an active sub, with an active x-over probably in the 60hz range to keep the sub hidden but improve the dynamic and bandwidth capabilities of the system.
I think the best way for you to improve on what you have, given the budget, is NOT to start fresh, but to simply improve on what you have.
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Hi,
Proper stands, line level BSC and a sub would certainly improve matters.
The Stentorians are like a beer budget Elsinore. Regarding
the latter the site is so long winded I quickly got bored.
However when push come to shove good speakers need good quality
drivers and well built boxes. The pi 1's are fair enough for a basic high
efficiency design but it would be churlish to expect genuine high fidelity
out of the eminence alpha 8" driver, it is basically a decent PA driver.
Reading between the lines I'd recommend building this :
Zaph|Audio
Should be all round simply a better speaker than the pi 1's,
with better bass extension, better maximum SPL's, better
balanced as it has BSC (and this is the only reason its not
as sensitive as the pi 1), better power response and very
likely significantly lower distortion at all levels / frequencies.
Biggest difference of course will be the apparent frequency response,
they shouldn't sound tinny at all, the extra bass should add solidity.
rgds, sreten.
Proper stands, line level BSC and a sub would certainly improve matters.
The Stentorians are like a beer budget Elsinore. Regarding
the latter the site is so long winded I quickly got bored.
However when push come to shove good speakers need good quality
drivers and well built boxes. The pi 1's are fair enough for a basic high
efficiency design but it would be churlish to expect genuine high fidelity
out of the eminence alpha 8" driver, it is basically a decent PA driver.
Reading between the lines I'd recommend building this :
Zaph|Audio
Should be all round simply a better speaker than the pi 1's,
with better bass extension, better maximum SPL's, better
balanced as it has BSC (and this is the only reason its not
as sensitive as the pi 1), better power response and very
likely significantly lower distortion at all levels / frequencies.
Biggest difference of course will be the apparent frequency response,
they shouldn't sound tinny at all, the extra bass should add solidity.
rgds, sreten.
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As i've said before, i'm a member of many hi-fi forums and have been for years. I could post links to loads of threads where people argue over what sounds better and the threads just go on and on. I think the problem is that everyone has different tastes in how they want their music presented. No hifi is perfect !
Just because the 8" Eminence is a cheap PA driver, doesn't mean it's not capable if hi fidelity sound (whatever that's supposed to be) Not only have I owned some riduculously expensive hifi gear, but i've listened to tons of it in shops and shows and peoples houses. Some of the most expensive hifi is also the most boring (to my ears).
Some people like the, what I like to call 'hifi type of sound' (silky smooth, airy, perhaps a bit laid back) and others like a more up front type of sound (bite, energy a touch forward). I've lost count of the amount of people who've gone from owning expensive, good quality hifi speakers, to things like vintage Tannoys, old JBL and klipsch and couldn't believe what they've missed out on (and wasted money on) all these years.
Sod hifi, I want to enjoy my music.
Just because the 8" Eminence is a cheap PA driver, doesn't mean it's not capable if hi fidelity sound (whatever that's supposed to be) Not only have I owned some riduculously expensive hifi gear, but i've listened to tons of it in shops and shows and peoples houses. Some of the most expensive hifi is also the most boring (to my ears).
Some people like the, what I like to call 'hifi type of sound' (silky smooth, airy, perhaps a bit laid back) and others like a more up front type of sound (bite, energy a touch forward). I've lost count of the amount of people who've gone from owning expensive, good quality hifi speakers, to things like vintage Tannoys, old JBL and klipsch and couldn't believe what they've missed out on (and wasted money on) all these years.
Sod hifi, I want to enjoy my music.
fatmarley,
I couldn't agree more. Which is why I am suggesting simply reinvigorating your current setup with better placement, BSC, and bottom end reinforcement. I happen to love the sound of reasonably well implemented "PA" drivers. To my ears, such drivers have a very effortless but controlled presence (subjective crap I know, but that's what I perceive).
I previously suggested a 60hz x-over to subs.... now looking over the drivers and box size and such, I think a stereo pair of subs active crossed higher would be a better approach. Letting those Alphas run linear without interference from major excursion.
I must ask though... do you have enough clean amplification to reach your listening level goals? I read that you have made a "chip-amp" which, to me means many possible things. Many of those designs are only good for a few watts per channel (clean). You may want to reconsider amplification here. Speakers can not fix an amplifiers shortcomings, in fact, speakers can only make them worse.
I couldn't agree more. Which is why I am suggesting simply reinvigorating your current setup with better placement, BSC, and bottom end reinforcement. I happen to love the sound of reasonably well implemented "PA" drivers. To my ears, such drivers have a very effortless but controlled presence (subjective crap I know, but that's what I perceive).
I previously suggested a 60hz x-over to subs.... now looking over the drivers and box size and such, I think a stereo pair of subs active crossed higher would be a better approach. Letting those Alphas run linear without interference from major excursion.
I must ask though... do you have enough clean amplification to reach your listening level goals? I read that you have made a "chip-amp" which, to me means many possible things. Many of those designs are only good for a few watts per channel (clean). You may want to reconsider amplification here. Speakers can not fix an amplifiers shortcomings, in fact, speakers can only make them worse.
In my opinion, the three PI would make an improvement in some important ways and it's little to do with their cost. It is mainly about directivity, which is to say the total spread of sound into the room.
The three PI should improve the weight of vocals and of the lower midrange in general, which is fairly important. It should also improve clarity. The clarity should come from the horn directing the sound in the upper portion of the spectrum, reducing room reflections. The weighting of the lower midrange should benefit from the wider baffle. By the way I haven't heard them.
The Zaph speakers that sreten suggests appear as if they may provide some of those benefits. I guess it's up to you how much of an improvement you want to go for.
Then there is the Elsinore. I haven't heard them yet but I know Joe is quite proud of them. They appear as if they would provide benefits in cleaning up the lower midrange with regards to reflections.
About stands, it is good to get the speakers to the right height but you'll need to play around alot with placement for the bass/mid, that's typically par for the course.
Baffle step compensation may have already been applied in a given speaker, and additionally it can be less of an issue to begin with where the cabinet approaches a certain width. In my opinion a wide cabinet, where appropriate, has its benefits.
Subs have benefits in regards to room integration and can be beneficial regardless of the nature of your main speakers. Recommended.
..and just my 2 cents on the Eminence driver, I have no issues with it, or similar drivers. in fact I think paper cones and pleated cloth surrounds are a good thing.
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