Hi Chaps,
I am a bit of a virgin with this building lark, although not studio audio, and could do with some advice. Looking to build a sealed box 2 way system in a 22l box using Seas CA22RNY drivers and a minidsp for crossover.
These things are to be near/mid field studio monitors (with a sub) and am looking for fast transients (hence closed box) and a good punch. From what I gather the Seas driver should provide this. I have at the moment some Monacor DT-101sk tweeters in place in the box which I guess would do for now, but I sense the need to go further and as opposed to just trying to make them work, in stead find some better quality ones which for measurement reasons I do not yet understand would make a good partner for the Seas in a 2way.
As extra info, I am looking to not necessarily keep the response strictly as flat as poss, but am quite keen to slightly push the high mids forward, which should be easily possible with the minidsp's help. This would be around 1-2khz, kind of like the exaggerated peak in Yamaha NS-10's, only with actual treble and bass to go with it....they cross at 2k...is the Seas good up to 2k?
Anyway, sorry for the lengthy babble in my first post, any recommendations for a suitable tweeter (softdome) highly appreciated.
I am a bit of a virgin with this building lark, although not studio audio, and could do with some advice. Looking to build a sealed box 2 way system in a 22l box using Seas CA22RNY drivers and a minidsp for crossover.
These things are to be near/mid field studio monitors (with a sub) and am looking for fast transients (hence closed box) and a good punch. From what I gather the Seas driver should provide this. I have at the moment some Monacor DT-101sk tweeters in place in the box which I guess would do for now, but I sense the need to go further and as opposed to just trying to make them work, in stead find some better quality ones which for measurement reasons I do not yet understand would make a good partner for the Seas in a 2way.
As extra info, I am looking to not necessarily keep the response strictly as flat as poss, but am quite keen to slightly push the high mids forward, which should be easily possible with the minidsp's help. This would be around 1-2khz, kind of like the exaggerated peak in Yamaha NS-10's, only with actual treble and bass to go with it....they cross at 2k...is the Seas good up to 2k?
Anyway, sorry for the lengthy babble in my first post, any recommendations for a suitable tweeter (softdome) highly appreciated.
The Seas CA22RNX is more suited to a sealed box.
I'm using a an old Vifa 8" driver with a Monacor DT300 tweeter and the matching WG300 waveguide. I got the idea from Troels gravesen.
I'm using a an old Vifa 8" driver with a Monacor DT300 tweeter and the matching WG300 waveguide. I got the idea from Troels gravesen.
Yep, I'll be measuring........the whole attraction of me wanting to do this is to get a sound tweaked to my personal and very specific preference, so ready made designs are not really what I'm after.
I want to end up with a system that has a dynamic punch like NS-10's and also somewhat forward mids around 1-2khz, but with decent extension up and down. The sound I seek is not going to exist ready made, as it isn't really a 'listening to music' aesthetic thing........looking for bone dry and punchy, very detailed but doesn't have to extend too much below, as long as the punch tells me what I need dynamically.
I do realise this might come across a bit hopeful or deluded, considering I have never built speakers before other than put a 5" in a box for an Auratone approximation, but then that is part of the appeal.
Opinions on the likelihood of the Seas 22RNX being up to the punch I am looking for would also be appreciated. The driver would likely be run off an Adcom GFA545 modified by JimWilliams/Audio Upgrades.
I want to end up with a system that has a dynamic punch like NS-10's and also somewhat forward mids around 1-2khz, but with decent extension up and down. The sound I seek is not going to exist ready made, as it isn't really a 'listening to music' aesthetic thing........looking for bone dry and punchy, very detailed but doesn't have to extend too much below, as long as the punch tells me what I need dynamically.
I do realise this might come across a bit hopeful or deluded, considering I have never built speakers before other than put a 5" in a box for an Auratone approximation, but then that is part of the appeal.
Opinions on the likelihood of the Seas 22RNX being up to the punch I am looking for would also be appreciated. The driver would likely be run off an Adcom GFA545 modified by JimWilliams/Audio Upgrades.
Both the Seas 27TDFGC (fabric) & 27TBFGC (Alu) get a good rap here:
Zaph|Audio
I can vouch for the 27TBFGC
Zaph|Audio
I can vouch for the 27TBFGC
I think a slight tweak of this design will give you exactly what you are looking for:
PEERLESS-NOMEX-164
You just need to modify the crossover and cabinet to make it a 2-way.
If you are looking for accuracy over anything else, a stiffer cone material would be better and I would imagine the Peerless nomex would be better than the Seas.
The Art of Speaker Design, Part II
The Art of Speaker Design, Part II
Thanks for the tips!! Reading away now......
Well, I am very fond of paper cone drivers, so would likely stay with that, but not necessarily the Seas if there are faster options that don't bankrupt me......looking to max out the Impulse/Group delay performance more than keeping the frequency response totally accurate and flat.
Well, I am very fond of paper cone drivers, so would likely stay with that, but not necessarily the Seas if there are faster options that don't bankrupt me......looking to max out the Impulse/Group delay performance more than keeping the frequency response totally accurate and flat.
NS10 ? 7"+1" ?
Why don't you go to a 7"+1" ?
The CA18RLY is done for closed box
CA18RLY/22TAF-G
The CA22RNX is a good driver with a clean midrange, very forgiving, can play a lot genre of music.
What you are describe "looking for bone dry and punchy, very detailed but doesn't have to extend too much below"
I'll go to something more expensive :
SEAS CNOcost no object
or
SEAS TJL-2W
A good compromise should be a 3 ways :
3-Way Classic
Why don't you go to a 7"+1" ?
The CA18RLY is done for closed box
CA18RLY/22TAF-G
The CA22RNX is a good driver with a clean midrange, very forgiving, can play a lot genre of music.
What you are describe "looking for bone dry and punchy, very detailed but doesn't have to extend too much below"
I'll go to something more expensive :
SEAS CNOcost no object
or
SEAS TJL-2W
A good compromise should be a 3 ways :
3-Way Classic
Hmmmm, had looked at the CA18RLY already as well. Just fancied a bit more of a 'wallop' to the punch. Still not ruling the Ca18RLY out if it likely would give me better mids than the CA22RNX....
Those other options are not going to be in the budget, which is not massive unfortunately.....but also feel to keep the cost in a reasonable area for a first attempt. If it comes out like I hope I might get brave and go for the 'mother' later.....or just use and enjoy it.
Those other options are not going to be in the budget, which is not massive unfortunately.....but also feel to keep the cost in a reasonable area for a first attempt. If it comes out like I hope I might get brave and go for the 'mother' later.....or just use and enjoy it.
I don't know well your taste, it is a bit difficult for us to be precise but I hope my responses will help a little.
The CA22 will give a better low midrange (till 800Hz) because it have more area. But the CA18 will be better in the upper mid treble (above 800Hz) due its smaller diameter.
If you want work on voices, the CA22 is better.
Note i gave you a link to a 3 ways (8"+4"+1"), the 4" compensate the lack of dispersion of the 8" in the area above 800Hz
Note 2, already given, there are alternative like the peerless HDS which can works very well
See : PEERLESS-NOMEX-164
Hope this helps.
The CA22 will give a better low midrange (till 800Hz) because it have more area. But the CA18 will be better in the upper mid treble (above 800Hz) due its smaller diameter.
If you want work on voices, the CA22 is better.
Note i gave you a link to a 3 ways (8"+4"+1"), the 4" compensate the lack of dispersion of the 8" in the area above 800Hz
Note 2, already given, there are alternative like the peerless HDS which can works very well
See : PEERLESS-NOMEX-164
Hope this helps.
The best vocals I ever had were through 10" Tannoy DC speakers. The large, horn-loaded tweeter produced a lot of the upper mids, so I guess that's why female vocals were very good. They easily produced the best male vocals i've ever heard and I think that was down to the large 10" midbass driver. High frequencies weren't the most detailed and the bass lacked depth though...
Aura NS6-255-8A 6" Paper Cone Neodymium Magnet Woofer 299-030
Just in case you think it's too cheap to be any good, look here: Green Mountain Audio - eos hd
Wow, those are cheap! But obviously put to good use the result isn't......interesting.
Not sure though. My guts say they are a bit small. Another qualifier for the ideal end product is that they will be seeing a mixture from techno and house music all the way to sparse singer songwriter stuff and rock. However, for the acoustic end I am fairly sorted already with pulp coned NHT's powered by Hypex. What I would really like out of these is a forwardness like NS10's but with more girth, for pounding minimal techno/house through in fullest clarity and with bounce like a rubber band and best possible impulse/group delay performance. And these just seem like the punch would end up an octave to high to feel it in the gut.
What makes the CA22RNX better in a closed box than the CA22RNY?
Not sure though. My guts say they are a bit small. Another qualifier for the ideal end product is that they will be seeing a mixture from techno and house music all the way to sparse singer songwriter stuff and rock. However, for the acoustic end I am fairly sorted already with pulp coned NHT's powered by Hypex. What I would really like out of these is a forwardness like NS10's but with more girth, for pounding minimal techno/house through in fullest clarity and with bounce like a rubber band and best possible impulse/group delay performance. And these just seem like the punch would end up an octave to high to feel it in the gut.
What makes the CA22RNX better in a closed box than the CA22RNY?
For punch the bigger the better, so yea the Aura NS6 is a bit small.
If you download the data sheets for the drivers you can then type the appropriate parameters into this online calculator.
If you want to work out the best box volume for the midbass driver, this is easy to use.
I'd aim for a QTC of 0.707 for max-flat frequency response.
If you do go with an 8" midbass driver, you really need to cross over as low as possible because an 8" driver starts to beam quite early. Something like the Seas 27TDFC will enable you to cross quite low and it's not too expensive.
Indeed.......that Seas tweeter is on my radar. Although the Monacor I have seems to be happy down to 2khz which might be enough......
I think the game has just changed and simplified.....had a listen to the speakers how they are, which is basically a 'would have thrown them away' pair of Studiospares SN10's, which have the Monacor tweeters instead missing originals.
I think I'll do this in stages, if nothing else for learning, and just get the minidsp first and see what I can get to happen with that, two nice amps and the original shitty paper drivers and the Monacor tweeters. And then see which direction it pulls, whether towards Seas drivers or better tweeters or both. I mean, it did just occur to me that it could actually happen that the drivers I have could get to where I want to go with the minidsp and the amps.....at least I reckon find out if so first. I get a sense that the original cheap paper driver has uglyness up top (no spec sheets....), and with the cheap tweeter that didn't reach far down enough it comes through in the originals.
Stands to reason with tweeters that go low enough (unlike the originals) and the crossover point lower, say 2khz like Yamaha's (unlike the 3.2khz original Studiospares) and that minidsp set right it could get close enough with what I have here......I will let you all know.
I didn't want to waste anyone's time here and hope you don't feel like I did....learning lots here...thank you very much!!!
I think the game has just changed and simplified.....had a listen to the speakers how they are, which is basically a 'would have thrown them away' pair of Studiospares SN10's, which have the Monacor tweeters instead missing originals.
I think I'll do this in stages, if nothing else for learning, and just get the minidsp first and see what I can get to happen with that, two nice amps and the original shitty paper drivers and the Monacor tweeters. And then see which direction it pulls, whether towards Seas drivers or better tweeters or both. I mean, it did just occur to me that it could actually happen that the drivers I have could get to where I want to go with the minidsp and the amps.....at least I reckon find out if so first. I get a sense that the original cheap paper driver has uglyness up top (no spec sheets....), and with the cheap tweeter that didn't reach far down enough it comes through in the originals.
Stands to reason with tweeters that go low enough (unlike the originals) and the crossover point lower, say 2khz like Yamaha's (unlike the 3.2khz original Studiospares) and that minidsp set right it could get close enough with what I have here......I will let you all know.
I didn't want to waste anyone's time here and hope you don't feel like I did....learning lots here...thank you very much!!!
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.