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Old 3rd March 2012, 01:36 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picowallspeaker View Post
I'm afraid that an expert of the loudspeaker field , which is basically a double spring with some handycap can accept that a system suffers from subtle or gross interpolations made by vibrations , which should be stopped and avoided firmly . One-in-all doesn't work . We should pursue for the best in Sound reproduction , WAF and older piece of furniture design shouldn't keep us to reach the goal -which is-often- only theoric ....
If achiveving sonic perfection was the goal for every device intended for music playback we would not have:

* under-cabinet CD players for music while cooking
* portable iPod boomboxes for listening to music while enjoying a sunset seated next to a duck-filled pond
* quite good audio quality in a room intended for other purposes besides a perfectly configured audio system, for example a living room, so we can enjoy music as a group while visiting old friends & dipping chunks of bread into a pot of tasty gooey cheese, or playing with our kids & the dog while exposing them to the art of Stravinsky, Mrs. Fitzgerald or Ian MacKaye.

There's a time and place for excellent audio reproduction, but IMO not EVERY time and not EVERY place.
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Old 3rd March 2012, 06:03 AM   #52
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I understand . Industry surely understand and knows how to make profit of it .
But they aren't to retire their products from the market if a client is dissatisfied ,like some cars having problems .
And you are absolutely right by bringing those examples : in all those cases the listener briefly pays attention to the music played ,but if you do , the first moment of an mp3 will reveal the errors made ..ok ,mp3 is lossy
ok ,let's talk about localization and physical structure of the boxes demanded to spread the sound , and the ( high ) possibility to catch and put in circle in (side) the system some errors ,which mostly are due to vibrations and bad or no isolation . Those may be very subtle , but even a 0.00000000000001 %
may ruin the 100 %. It's there , are you (your mind unconsciously ) neglecting it ? So you won't pay attention to it ,just remove it
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Old 3rd March 2012, 05:41 PM   #53
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Within limits, I think the human mind is very good at removing unwanted sounds (THD, MP3 compression artifacts, etc) from music so we can still enjoy it. Which is why a $20 table radio can still cause many people to tap their foot or get up and dance.

"The perfect is the enemy of the very good" (Voltaire?)
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Old 3rd March 2012, 05:54 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by jdrouin View Post

Alas, I do not have the kind of income or free time (or spouse) that would support the promiscuous sampling of equipment that many audiophiles seem to enjoy so much. When I buy something (or make something), I tend to keep it for ever. That's why I try to get it right (or right enough) the first time around, and my musical instrument collection is a testament to that.

So, since we need to furnish our living room (which by the way has no TV: music is the core focus), and since it's not very large, I was thinking of making a self-contained console that would sound awesome, and perform well for a long time to come.


Jeff
If your wife doesn't support you in your hobbies, then you've got marital problems that are beyond the scope of this message board. If you can't find a way to engage her in this process, then she will feel excluded and probably automatically reject the project. If she's not willing to negotiate on this, then you've got bigger problems than I want to talk about.

If you have no furniture in your living room, then anything you put in there will sound like crap. Wait until the room is furnished before messing around with hifi.

I also think your expectations for this system are far too high and unreasonable. You can do it, no problem, just don't expect really great quality.
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Old 3rd March 2012, 08:51 PM   #55
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ask for her opinion. Put on her favorite music and have her input when doing changes. You'd be surprised how well she can hear her own music. Let her pick out the cabinet.

My vote is for you to find a large console (like 4' wide) and gut it. So long as it is in great shape, I'd go up to $200. Woodwork, finish, stain and the such take time and money. You can even get a tube one and bring the guts somewhere and it can be repaired.

Be careful about getting a music room just for you (no tv). She may never step foot in it. Man caves can be very separatist. To me it is better to have a huge room where everything is (music, tv).

Norman
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Old 4th March 2012, 12:10 AM   #56
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Default Ask her

X2 on the huge room. Otherwise this is sounding like cartalk regarding marital arts. I even know a married couple who also run a business! Compound partnership! Inconceivable!
Huge room=different house for us
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Old 4th March 2012, 12:52 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norman bates View Post
ask for her opinion. Put on her favorite music and have her input when doing changes. You'd be surprised how well she can hear her own music. Let her pick out the cabinet.

My vote is for you to find a large console (like 4' wide) and gut it. So long as it is in great shape, I'd go up to $200. Woodwork, finish, stain and the such take time and money. You can even get a tube one and bring the guts somewhere and it can be repaired.

Be careful about getting a music room just for you (no tv). She may never step foot in it. Man caves can be very separatist. To me it is better to have a huge room where everything is (music, tv).

Norman
Oh yeah I agree. Many young women want everything to match, so if he is going to make something for the show off room of the house, it had better look like it belongs there. I try to make stuff in a way that my wife likes, and that it goes with the other stuff in the room. So, the first step in my opinion is to ask her if she wants the hifi to match the rest of the furniture in the room. My bet is that she'd say yes, so unless you are a highly skilled woodworker, it may not be possible to exactly match the rest of the stuff that is there. You've chosen Mid Century Modern as the console style you like, but is that what is there in the rest of the room and is it your wife's favorite style?

Once the style is established, then ask her how big are you allowed to make this thing. Get cardboard boxes or something so she can "see" it. Women generally don't have our ability to see 3D shapes in their heads, so they need to see it in front of them before they can decide. So, obviously you want the biggest box you can get away with for the console. I would not go for the one you showed because all that space from the bottom to the floor is wasted. You could fit a subwoofer in the space you have for the legs!

So, once you figured out the style and the size together, then she probably doesn't care about the specifics and that's where you get to play. Just make sure she can turn it on easily.... none of this "turn this one on first, then this one... then you have to flip this other switch.... " Just one big red switch is best.

These are my techniques, so maybe they are some use to you or other people.
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Old 4th March 2012, 07:20 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by dirkwright View Post
Once the style is established, then ask her how big are you allowed to make this thing. Get cardboard boxes or something so she can "see" it. Women generally don't have our ability to see 3D shapes in their heads, so they need to see it in front of them before they can decide. So, obviously you want the biggest box you can get away with for the console. I would not go for the one you showed because all that space from the bottom to the floor is wasted. You could fit a subwoofer in the space you have for the legs!
My first thought is, "What a pain to run the vacuum under there!" (I'm thinking back in the day, Danish Modern was popular with people that had maids.)

I think Dirk's right on target. One question you might pose, "Given that you already have a suitable couch in the room, would you rather have another couch or two large chairs?" That is, one 8' long piece of furniture is a bit of a decorating nightmare. I could see building two half-consoles, perhaps with electronics in the top of one, and CD storage in the top of the other, but double check the concept of lift tops - you can't put anything on them, and that empty flat horizontal surface will just sit there, staring, begging for a lamp, plant, or knick-knacks.

Going back to the beginning questions, I'm not sure the benefits of an MTM array are realised when the axis is below ear level.
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Old 7th March 2012, 03:51 PM   #59
jdrouin is offline jdrouin  United States
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Whoah! I didn't mean to ignite a discussion of marital processes. I was simply indicating that the project needs to be considered carefully before it's built because I don't have the interest (nor does my wife have the patience) for constant equipment swapping to get the hi-fi sound just right. I (we) want to make sure it's done well from the start.

Of course she is involved in the decision-making process. It's not for a man-cave (I've got one of those above the garage), but for a room we all spend a lot of time in. We just prefer the TV to be in the den, which is deeper in the house. The living room is more of a public-facing one, so the stereo and related furniture would double as show-pieces.

I'm now leaning toward building two Zaph ZDT3.5 towers with a narrower variation on my console design (i.e. 30" x 30") for the storage cabinet between them. Recently I played around with the imaging on my small bookshelf speakers and have been enjoying them so much. I'd rather go for a configurable and superior sound quality than the "show" factor of an invented 1-piece console, which would be a headache in terms of cabinet design. My bride is on board and we've been discussing veneer colors.
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Old 7th March 2012, 04:03 PM   #60
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If all your gear is behind solid doors, then it's usually more acceptable.
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