Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 6th February 2012, 12:03 AM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
gainphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Melbourne the sunny city!
Default Linkwitzlab "Watson"

Anyone planning to try this ?

I happen to have 3" fullrange TangBand. It should do the job.

Also, the MiniDSP can do 7.5ms delay, more than sufficient for typical listening distance.

Click the image to open in full size.


I could use my pluto Clone too perhaps... but not enough amps on hand.

Also, I do not have much open space to the back...
__________________
http://gainphile.blogspot.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2012, 12:05 AM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Joachim Gerhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
I will try it. I plan to use the Scan-Speak Discovery 13cm midrange.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2012, 12:06 AM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Joachim Gerhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/15m-4624g00.pdf
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2012, 12:34 AM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
gainphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Melbourne the sunny city!
Reading from SL's "requirements" it seems in summary:
- Time delay is a must
- Frequency response should be like a "good telephone"... midrange ?
- Too much bass and to much HF (that is "flat") is distracting.
__________________
http://gainphile.blogspot.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2012, 12:47 AM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Joachim Gerhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Yes, a good midrange driver will do, listened off axis.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2012, 06:28 AM   #6
6.283 is offline 6.283  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Black Forest
Hi Andi,

what SL describes about Watson ("what's on" ?) sounds very similar to what Demokrit does for me (also check the latest update). Maybe the impression with Watson is a bit stronger but in total I believe of the same character. First SL was talking about cross talk cancellation and I thought that this is not what I have with my speaker. But he revised it and that is an indicator for me that we hear a very similar effect although I am only using one pair of speakers.
As soon as my dipole can be used again I will double-check but that will not be before spring time I need to move somewhere where I can measure all year round.

-20C greetings
Oliver
__________________
2Pi-online.de

Last edited by 6.283; 6th February 2012 at 06:31 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2012, 07:29 AM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Enschede
I've done something similar about two, three years ago, albeit with a qualitatively mediocre speaker. I had a regular +-30 stereo triangle with dipoles and positioned the extra speakers at +- 70 degrees, with a delay of about 20 ms for the corresponding channel and mixed in the opposite channel with an even longer delay. It had some very nice effects, more envelopment and a very large sound stage. Image clarity suffered though, as did timbre; however, the timbre change was probably due to the poor power response of the side speakers.

I'm planning to repeat this experiment with better speakers and maybe different delays. Not sure how soon that will be though

Personally, I would try a larger delay of at least 10 ms, but preferably 20 ms or so.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2012, 09:52 AM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
gainphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Melbourne the sunny city!
I have tried this tonight. It's quite amazing, and what is most interesting the additional pairs of nearfield speakers do not seem to produce any sound! At first I had to touch the cone to make sure. The localisation do happen but at very near distance, if I moved my ears about 10-15 cm from the 'Watson'

What is left is an expanse of sound field, yet the tonality of the main speakers do not change and that the phantom image remains very sharp, if not sharper (!). It's one of those things that needs to be heard to believe.

I will post a long term experience.


The setup: Only the midrange section of pluto clone is used.

Click the image to open in full size.


The impulse response of both speakers after time alignment at listening position. In my case the required delay is 5.2ms or about 1.7m

Click the image to open in full size.


The level as matched at listening position. (midrange only for main speakers)

Click the image to open in full size.


Please let us know your finding and compare notes!
__________________
http://gainphile.blogspot.com

Last edited by gainphile; 6th February 2012 at 10:11 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2012, 10:43 AM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Enschede
I'm reading the Watson page a bit more thoroughly now. If I understand correctly, the extra speakers should be time aligned with the front speakers? A benefit mentioned on the page is reduction of crosstalk effects. That's interesting.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th February 2012, 11:52 AM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
gainphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Melbourne the sunny city!
Default Dipole Watson !

After some more hours listening, it gradually appear to me that the sound characteristic of the closed box pluto clone 'tints' the overall character of the system ("boxy" ?). It is very subtle, but not inaudible.

The logical solution is to make the Watson Dipoles. But what about the out of phase rear radiation mixing with main speakers ?

To my surprise again the "dissapearing act" of these helper speakers are maintained and now the overall presentation, transparencies of dipoles are intact.

Will post longer term impression.

A small midbass is enough, again only the midrange are active.

Click the image to open in full size.


A very intersting afternoon thanks to SL for sharing his finding
__________________
http://gainphile.blogspot.com
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The ubiquitous 1/2"...um....3/4"...er 1" ?? polycarbonate "dome" tweeter River757 Multi-Way 16 8th July 2013 12:45 AM
Blu Ray BD Disc "In Concert" resp "live at" - Overview wanted tiefbassuebertr Music 2 5th January 2012 02:54 PM
Who have heard Top Class DVB-S Receiver RESTEK "M-SAT" and 2Wcom "DSR01" tiefbassuebertr Digital Source 0 9th November 2011 07:47 PM
What makes an amplifier "bright", "warm", or "neutral"? JohnS Solid State 51 13th December 2009 06:42 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:09 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2