A Test. How much Voltage (power) do your speakers need? - Page 88 - diyAudio
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View Poll Results: I measured the test tone at:
2 volts or less 140 37.74%
Between 2-5 volts 126 33.96%
Between 5-10 volts 48 12.94%
Between 10-20 volts 21 5.66%
Over 20 volts. 36 9.70%
Voters: 371. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 28th November 2013, 06:07 AM   #871
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^ pano, wouldn't that non linearity infer that the drivers were maxed out, or hitting thermal compression region?
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Old 28th November 2013, 06:39 AM   #872
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Neither the peak SPL nor voltage was data logged, only the two minute average SPL was. I know the numbers only roughly correlate. The active SPL numbers and traces on the scope are rapidly changing and I simply recorded what I saw with no attempt to fudge what I viewed.

I could set up and log all of it but this was just for fun and mild curiosity. I don't need to know if I need a 1000 watt amp or a 1200 watt amp. I do know I won't be happy with a 35 watt amp.

All the best,
Barry.
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Old 28th November 2013, 07:14 AM   #873
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
This got me really curious so, I did the Pano 220Hz test. I used several songs for reference:

Cadillac Angels, Loves Heavy Chains, 2 min. avg. 96dBC, 99.9dBC peak, 220Hz 3.1V

Sara K, History Repeats Itself, 2 min. avg. 87.4dBC, 106.5dBC peak, 220Hz 12V, scope 42V

Jimmy Rogers, Blue Bird, 2 min. avg. 88.1 dBC, 102 dBC peak, 220Hz 5.7V, scope 40V

Dean Peer, Lords Tundra, 2 min. avg. 89.1 dBC, 104,6 dBC peak, 220Hz 9.75V, scope 80V

Dick Hyman, Topsy, 2 min. avg. 81.8 dBC, 95.7 dBC peak, 220Hz 5.1V

The first song is obviously compressed. On History and Blue the peaks are actually vocals. The scope voltage is the maximum visually observed voltage swing. The peak dBC is also visually observed. The 2 minute average dBC is done with a calibrated mic using TEF with the worlds worst RTA.

The amps will drive full power 20-20kHz into 2 ohm and nearly so to DC so they are indeed voltage limited into a 6 plus Ohm load. They are on a dedicated 240V 40 amp circuit so they are not supply limited.

I'm just kicking it listening at about 1.5V now. I don't think I'll be in for smaller amps.

Thanks for the fun Pano.
Barry.
What amps are you using .....?
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Old 28th November 2013, 09:40 AM   #874
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1audiohack View Post
This got me really curious so, I did the Pano 220Hz test. I used several songs for reference:

Cadillac Angels, Loves Heavy Chains, 2 min. avg. 96dBC, 99.9dBC peak, 220Hz 3.1V

Sara K, History Repeats Itself, 2 min. avg. 87.4dBC, 106.5dBC peak, 220Hz 12V, scope 42V

Jimmy Rogers, Blue Bird, 2 min. avg. 88.1 dBC, 102 dBC peak, 220Hz 5.7V, scope 40V

Dean Peer, Lords Tundra, 2 min. avg. 89.1 dBC, 104,6 dBC peak, 220Hz 9.75V, scope 80V

Dick Hyman, Topsy, 2 min. avg. 81.8 dBC, 95.7 dBC peak, 220Hz 5.1V

The first song is obviously compressed. On History and Blue the peaks are actually vocals. The scope voltage is the maximum visually observed voltage swing. The peak dBC is also visually observed. The 2 minute average dBC is done with a calibrated mic using TEF with the worlds worst RTA.

The amps will drive full power 20-20kHz into 2 ohm and nearly so to DC so they are indeed voltage limited into a 6 plus Ohm load. They are on a dedicated 240V 40 amp circuit so they are not supply limited.

I'm just kicking it listening at about 1.5V now. I don't think I'll be in for smaller amps. .......
Did you adjust the volume control to suit each different track?
I note that the first and last have the extreme in the range of average output (>14dB difference). That by my thinking would lead to a very different volume control setting for each to sound right.
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Old 28th November 2013, 12:42 PM   #875
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Barry, thanks for the answer, I understand. From your measurements of the tones I'd say you need a minimum 150W amp. That's taken on the highest RMS voltage you got - 12V.
That seems reasonable given the efficiency of the speakers and the levels you want. You could probably get by with 50 watts RMS for most listening, but it would limit your headroom and party ability.
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Old 28th November 2013, 08:41 PM   #876
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Hi a.wayne;

The amps are the AE Techron 7560/7570 series, "Gradient Drive Amplifier". The same chassis as the Crown M600 and Delta Omega.

Yes AndrewT, I did adjust the volume for each song. The compressed song Loves Heavy Chains had the volume knob at 12 O'clock, Lords Tundra was wide open. The gain stage in the amp yields near 0dB on the VU meter when the pre is wide open.

Barry.
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Old 29th November 2013, 11:33 AM   #877
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Default Measured today

Cool!

I performed the measurement today.

Having adjusted the volume control so as to achieve a 'realistic' (as in: like in a Jazz club) level with some fairly dynamic jazz recording ('Art Pepper meets the rhythm section'), the -12dB, 120Hz sine wave test tone gave a reading of 6V. At the same volume setting, '0dB' peak levels will therefore require 4x such voltage, i.e. 24V.

My speakers are ~93dB/W(m), and my listening position is ~3m away from the speakers. So according to my back-of-the-envelope calculations, this corresponds to instantaneous peak (0dB) levels of ~105dB at the listening position, which sounds about right for a subjectively 'realistic' level with that kind of music.

Incidentally, it also means that a ~70Wpc/8Ohm amplifier is required to provide such undistorted and unclipped peaks - despite what is often claimed by those who say that with fairly efficient speakers such as mine a 10W minimalistic amp is all that's needed... (and if the speakers had been some of the common 'audiophile' 87dB/W(m) ones, then a ~280W amp would have been called for!)

Thanks Pano for suggesting this test!

Marco

Last edited by marco_gea; 29th November 2013 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 29th November 2013, 01:18 PM   #878
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Marco - you are welcome! Yes that sounds about right, 105dB peaks is plenty loud for most material. But I see you as needing a 40W RMS amp, not 70W. Not that a 70W amp would be bad, it would have all the headroom you ever need.

I figure it this way: If you need to hit 24V peak, then you need 17V RMS. That means a power amp rated clean @ 36W-8 ohms RMS. Call it 40W and be happy. And you are correct, a 10W RMS amp would not work for you at those levels. You'd be under your peak voltage be at least 6dB.
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Old 29th November 2013, 01:40 PM   #879
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Right. I had just calculated the peak power demand, not the RMS.

Cheers,
Marco
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Old 28th May 2014, 07:56 AM   #880
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To Pano, Hi, I'm new in diyAudio forum. I wanted to know about my custom sound system which is built with STK4231v. Honestly I haven't any idea about rms, watt, ohms and db but I have much interest about sound sys. Thats why I want to know am I using the right speaker with right amp or not?

Please see below my custom amplifier and speaker system.

My Amplifier:
IC: STK4231v (100w + 100w MIN.)
Transformer: AC 35v and DC+/-48v
Ampere: 8
Capacitor in the split power supply: 6800mfd, 63volt
Tone circuit: BASS and TREBLE with C828 transistor driven preamp with master volume and setup before AMP circuit. (CD/DVD directly input to the tone circuit then power amp.)

My Speaker system:
3 way custom speaker system
One horn with 80wrms, 6ohms
One 5" midrange with 35wrms, 8ohms
One 15" speaker with 300wrms, 8ohms
All are connected parallels with 15" speaker.
With the Horn, 2.2mfd with 50v bi-poler cap. (parallel con. with 15", 8ohms speaker)
With the Midrange, 10mfd with 50v bi-poler cap. and 10ohms 20watt register, both are serially connected (parallel con. with 15", 8ohms speaker)

Now kindly tell me the condition of the above.

Thanks.
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