A Test. How much Voltage (power) do your speakers need? - Page 76 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
View Poll Results: I measured the test tone at:
2 volts or less 143 37.43%
Between 2-5 volts 130 34.03%
Between 5-10 volts 51 13.35%
Between 10-20 volts 22 5.76%
Over 20 volts. 36 9.42%
Voters: 382. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 30th November 2012, 11:01 AM   #751
Pano is offline Pano  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
Pano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Milliways
Blog Entries: 4
Answers - yes and yes.

With a -12dBFS (-9dB RMS) signal you should not be clipping. That's one of the reasons I put it down there. It's possible, but not likely, you'd clip the tone. If you do, then the rest of your music is going to be horribly clipped.

If you take your measured voltage and multiply it by 2.83, you will know the highest RMS voltage you need at that volume setting. Use Ohm's law to figure your power. Leave yourself some headroom when choosing an amp. Pretty simple.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th November 2012, 11:15 AM   #752
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Perth, WA
Thanks,

After I posted that I thought about it some more during
my lunch break, did the math and realised the answers to my own questions.

I really like this solution to this age old question "How much
amplifier power do I need"

Thanks for your reply.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 04:10 AM   #753
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Perth, WA
OK I took some measurements.

It really does depend on what I'm playing.

Material that is very quiet eg. classical music, needs the volume control to be turned up, because the soft bits need to be turned up.

So I can measure between 1V to 20V, depending on what I'm listening to.

Turns out Rickie Lee Jones regularly clips my 200W amps, but Nelly Furtado only needs about 1V.

Are first watt afficionado's really audiophiles? I think not.

Last edited by tktran303; 5th December 2012 at 04:37 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 08:37 AM   #754
Kei is offline Kei  Wales
diyAudio Member
 
Kei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Wales
Measured my diy kef chorales which are about 84-85dB efficient and got 5.7V at my absolute maximum listening level. (borderline deafening with music) At my usual loud volume level it measured at 1.40V.

Room size is 2.7 x 2.8 x 2.3m.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 03:23 PM   #755
Pano is offline Pano  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
Pano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Milliways
Blog Entries: 4
Thanks for the data points, guys. I hope that the measurements are useful to you.

Yes, picking dynamic tracks will really make a difference to where you set the volume, and thus the voltage you measure on the test tone. I certainly turn up the volume on classical and dynamic jazz tracks because the average level is fairly low. The peaks are still recorded at 0dB, but those peaks are now at a higher voltage because the volume is up.

First Watt fans can be just as audiophile as anyone, power numbers can get out of hand very fast. I can get realistic live levels in my room with just a few watts (>5 RMS). Typical levels are a fraction of a watt. That's because the room isn't big and the speakers are efficient. Bigger spaces and lower efficiency speakers call for more voltage.
Quote:
So I can measure between 1V to 20V, depending on what I'm listening to.
I hope you mean "Depending on where I set the volume knob". That's the point of this test.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 10:41 PM   #756
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Perth, WA
Hi Michael,

If you play some tracks from like Rickie Lee Jones's album Flying Cowboys, you will easily hit 10-20V, or more

I have 87dB/2.83V speakers, in a medium sized 6x9m room.

If you play Nelly Furtado's Whoa Nelly! , you'll likely measure less than 2V.

I am not saying that I am doing the test incorrectly, but the results do reflect what listening material people are using to set their reference volume knob.

Last edited by tktran303; 5th December 2012 at 10:45 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 11:07 PM   #757
Pano is offline Pano  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
Pano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Milliways
Blog Entries: 4
Yes. quite correct. That's why I suggest finding a few dynamic tracks that force you to turn up the volume for a good listening level, then use that are your reference point.

With the amp volume set where I normally have it I will never hit 10-20V, it's impossible. The most I could ever hit is 2.5V peak. Or about 1.75V RMS. That's all the voltage the gain allows. My gain at normal loud setting is basically 1. 1.75 volts out of the DAC will give me 1.75V at the speaker terminals. There are times I set the volume higher, but not much. And please remember, the test tone is 12dB RMS below peak.

Once my volume is set, the is no way for the peak voltage to go more than 4X above what I measure. In my case about 0.6V on the tone. The maximum RMS I would ever see is 2.83X above the measured tone.

If you have set the volume where you like it loud on the Rickie Lee Jones album and measure 20V on the test tone, that means your max RMS voltage would be about 56V. The peaks will be hitting 80 volts.
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 11:18 PM   #758
diyAudio Member
 
radiosmuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Montreal
Quote:
Originally Posted by tktran303 View Post
OK I took some measurements.

It really does depend on what I'm playing.

Material that is very quiet eg. classical music, needs the volume control to be turned up, because the soft bits need to be turned up.

So I can measure between 1V to 20V, depending on what I'm listening to.

Turns out Rickie Lee Jones regularly clips my 200W amps, but Nelly Furtado only needs about 1V.

Are first watt afficionado's really audiophiles? I think not.
On classical music the soft bits are supposed to be soft.
With my old ears and various speakers I only needed between 0.4v and 1.2v on classical music. Say for Never Mind The Bollocks, I need to turn the sound down.
Perhaps years of blasting ones youthful eardrums with loud music through headphones makes it now neccessary for a 200w amp?
Back in the 50's there was demonstrations at Carnegie Hall of side by side live and recorded music and it took just 60 watts of amplified sound to fill the hall to live music levels.
Perhaps modern 200 watt amps are not really 200 watts?
Years ago I got more than enough clean sound from a pair of Leak TL12's
  Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2012, 11:44 PM   #759
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Perth, WA
I wanted to provoke a few people with the comment "first watt afficionados not being real audiophiles"

Like any good test or experiment, it is important to do an analysis of
the results. The background, aims, methodology and data collection of this test
are sound. I really like it. But what does the results actually mean?
What are the limitations and implications for future research?

That part is open to discussion.

Putting my serious, non provocative hat on, I propose that the large proportion of <5V
readings reflect not low volumes that people listen to, but that the majority of recordings in circulation have limited dynamic range.

Michael, try Rickie Lee Jones "Ghetto of my mind" and see for yourself.
Set your level at a enjoyable, but not deafening listen level at your
listening chair, then measure the test tones. Tell me what voltage reading you hit.


(Hint: This 1989 recording has an excellent dynamic range of 24dB.)

Last edited by tktran303; 6th December 2012 at 12:03 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th December 2012, 02:13 AM   #760
Pano is offline Pano  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
Pano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Milliways
Blog Entries: 4
I don't have the recording, tho I have some other R.L.J. But no problem, I have plenty of recordings with equal or better dynamic range. That's what I used to set my volume for the test. And that's how I end up with 0.6V on the test at that volume setting. Other systems will be different. And drunken party loud will need higher voltages.

As long as we talk about voltage, most people don't get upset, probably because they never thought about it in terms of voltage. But mention watts and the claws come out. We've been so brainwashed to know how many watts we do or don't need, that a real test can upset those notions. Knowing what you actually need is what is important, not whether it's a lot or a little.

It all depends on your system and your room. To reach some given SPL it's going to take a certain voltage. The purpose of this test is to know that voltage. Be it 1 volt or 80 volts, it's easy to know using a digital source. That's the whole point. There is no "better", no "worse". There is simply "what you've got." If you measure, you'll know.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LM3875 power up test.. and it crackles w/o speakers attached? Keyoke Chip Amps 9 2nd March 2012 01:39 AM
how to test chokes for current and voltage speakerfritz Tubes / Valves 10 20th October 2010 11:32 AM
Aleph 30 problem - half of power supply voltage on speakers output yoke Pass Labs 18 15th March 2009 05:18 PM
How to test speakers? zaydenam Multi-Way 2 27th August 2008 01:02 PM
Test speakers? Ryssen Multi-Way 3 2nd March 2004 10:54 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:01 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright Đ1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2