A Test. How much Voltage (power) do your speakers need? - Page 53 - diyAudio
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View Poll Results: I measured the test tone at:
2 volts or less 140 37.74%
Between 2-5 volts 126 33.96%
Between 5-10 volts 48 12.94%
Between 10-20 volts 21 5.66%
Over 20 volts. 36 9.70%
Voters: 371. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 9th February 2012, 12:46 AM   #521
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
we're somewhat off-topic but the objective data suggest that they're an easy load. they're advertised as such but I'm not the one to trust the marketing dept so I measured. impedance does not go below 4.6 ohms and it's equalized. phase shift is +/-30 deg max. the amp should have no problems driving them. and anyway this all too relative, some like it louder, some don't. I met a lot of people who like to listen at incredibly low levels it's not even funny.

It's not about more SPL Pull, it's about size and realism of sound ..... !!!!


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Originally Posted by 5th element View Post
I listen to music such as the classical piece I posted reasonably regularly. I don't however listen to it at a level that's anywhere near capable of hitting ~105dB on peaks. Perhaps at most 100dB, but I'd say more like 95dB. This might be different if I had a larger room, I am in a 4*3 meter room with high ceilings and I sit at around 2 meters away from the loudspeakers. The system is very capable and can easily hit 105dB without difficulty, it remains extremely clean, only the room sounds like it's becoming over loaded and this is especially noticeable with compressed music. My ears don't much like it either and on compressed music this happens with the average replay level at around 85dB. I typically listen to compressed music at around 10dB less then that.

OK, mini symphony sound ....


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Originally Posted by 5th element View Post
Watts are one thing, but if you want it loud there is no substitute for a pair of speakers with high sensitivity.
Yep, but that high sensitivity speaker better be multi-driver , multi-way and not the typical 2 way or single driver deal ...
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Old 9th February 2012, 12:54 AM   #522
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Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
typical 2 way or single driver deal ...
Single drivers lol don't get me started on those, I wont touch them with a 10 foot barge pole. Okay they do have their uses, but not for any main listening system of mine.

Can you get typical 2 ways that hit the sensitivity figures we're talking about? The best candidate for this as far as I've seen is the 18 sound 6.5" with 92dB sensitivity and excellent other stats. That'd fall back to ~87dB after BSC though, decent, but still not quite there imo. A pair of them in a 2.5 way with a wave-guide loaded tweeter would do okay though and would probably represent the best you can really do for a 'standard' type design. Of course if you cut out the lows and use a sub I think that'd be rather capable.
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Old 9th February 2012, 01:03 AM   #523
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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I was thinking more horn/woofer 2 ways that are becoming typical again . They boast sensitivity in the high 90's, it's a big favorite amongst those losing their hearing or never had any to begin with ..


Viagra or Horns i guess ...................




disclaimer: Not you Pano .....
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Old 9th February 2012, 01:15 AM   #524
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Why not Pano??
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Old 9th February 2012, 01:51 AM   #525
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Old 9th February 2012, 02:36 AM   #526
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Ha! I see that this has degenerated into the "I use more power than you" and "I listen louder than you " thread. It was inevitable, but took longer than I thought.

What does it matter? Shouldn't you listen to what you like, how you like? And if you want some sort of standard, use the SMPTE/EBU pink noise at 85dB SPL. Set your level by ear, or by SPL meter, this test will tell you what the peak voltages will be. It will NOT tell you about power compression or distortion in your speakers.

This test was just to give you an idea of where you are with your system using a simple, easy measurement. If you want to discuss what others "should be" doing, or ultimate design goals, or brag about how much power you do (or don't) use - go start another thread.

Me? I'm happy to know what voltage it takes to hit my goal of ~105dB peaks, even tho I rarely play that loud. Your system and your goals are probably different. Why not measure and find out? That's what this thread is all about.
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Old 9th February 2012, 03:52 AM   #527
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Just a few comments; first let me say I like the test and the OP has come up with a creative way to find ballpark figures for most people. One of those things where it's obvious but that doesn't mean you think of it until it's pointed out to you.

RE: the -12V RMS level
About 7 years or so ago I started digitizing albums so that I could enjoy music that isn't available on CD in the usual digital places. I also experimented with normalizing CDs to a level that matched the digitized albums perceived average level, avoiding things like "sound check" on an iPod (which didn't sound that good then, still doesn't, and eats up iPod battery life if enabled).

To probably no-one's surprise, the CDs were mastered pretty hot and generally had to be reduced in level if the goal was a consistent average level across a library of music.

The albums were recorded at 96/24 with an RME soundcard. I kept the hirez files on the drive, did any processing on a copy, and downsampled to 16/44 with dither for convenience, eg if I wanted to burn a CD for use in a car player, or if I wanted to minimize file size on an iPod (I have always used 16/44 uncompressed files on the iPod, no mp3's). Using iTunes it was simple to make a playlist with sample rate criteria to use as a library if I wanted to move a copy for use on another device or burn to disk.

Not necessarily the process you or I would use today, but this was 2004. Naturally, I still have both the original and normalized 24/96 files and they are playable over a much wider variety of digital gear now.

For albums and CDs to match in average volume, I found I had to normalize down to at least -13dB RMS. This was of course a limit set by the albums I transposed, not the CDs. Most albums would generate digital clipping at -12dB. Some albums needed -14dB RMS to avoid digital clipping, and a few need to go lower still.

Generally speaking the older the recording, the more headroom required. Also since the goal was average volume consistency, there were occasions where a few songs on relatively new albums had more dynamics so the entire album was normalized to match at lower than -13dB.

Depending on your listening habits, some might consider calculating your maximum necessary power to a higher multiple; -12dB (4x power) may not be sufficient in all cases for all kinds of music. It almost certainly wouldn't be sufficient if you have non-digtal sources (the difference is related to mastering practices adopted with digital recording).

For reference -14dB would mean 5x (1v @ -14dB = 5.011872v @ 0dB). If you want to add a "fudge factor" (and I think it's wise to do so) you could calculate your needs with different values. A recent post suggested 18dB or 8x (1v @ -18dB = 7.943282v @ 0dB) which seems reasonable to me. None of this addresses the question of LF energy power requirements (eg below 220 Hz) but that is beyond the scope of this "quick-and-dirty" but none the less interesting test.
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Last edited by Johnny2Bad; 9th February 2012 at 04:22 AM.
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Old 9th February 2012, 12:29 PM   #528
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Thanks Johnny for the info on your digitized albums. I've have not done much of that, so it's nice to have a reference. How far above average level did you find the ticks and pops on vinyl?

I'm not sure from your post above, but you may be falling into the "-12dB reference trap", a lot of posters have. In no way is the -12dB level any sort of headroom or level reference. Nowhere is that mentioned in the test. The test tone is at -12dBfs simply by convenience. It could be anywhere from -3dBfs to -82dBfs. You do NOT set your levels by the tone, you use the tone to measure your levels.

Just want to be sure that is clear. Maybe I need to go back and edit the test post to make this clear.
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Old 9th February 2012, 02:19 PM   #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny2Bad View Post
a creative way to find ballpark figures for most people.
Supposing that it's a perfect power amp (flat output voltage at any phase or load), and assuming that 120Hz is the worst load.
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Old 9th February 2012, 08:04 PM   #530
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Originally Posted by jacco vermeulen View Post
and assuming that 120Hz is the worst load.
No. Why do you say that?
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