Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
View Poll Results: I measured the test tone at:
2 volts or less 133 38.11%
Between 2-5 volts 118 33.81%
Between 5-10 volts 44 12.61%
Between 10-20 volts 21 6.02%
Over 20 volts. 33 9.46%
Voters: 349. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 7th February 2012, 03:12 AM   #461
Pano is offline Pano  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
Pano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Milliways
Blog Entries: 4
Thanks for the test track. Don't know about leaving it here, I'll ask some other mods. If it was a free download, should not be a problem.

I also see it as at -19dB RMS, at least the loud section at the end - a good choice. But we'll still get complaints that it isn't adequate, or not dynamic enough, or that it's not related to the -12dB track, or something. It's been a bumpy road so far.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 03:26 AM   #462
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: At the output stage
Send a message via Yahoo to mr_push_pull
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Thanks for the test track. Don't know about leaving it here, I'll ask some other mods. If it was a free download, should not be a problem.

I also see it as at -19dB RMS, at least the loud section at the end - a good choice. But we'll still get complaints that it isn't adequate, or not dynamic enough, or that it's not related to the -12dB track, or something. It's been a bumpy road so far.
and some will say that Tchaikovsky sucks.
one other very dynamic recording (in the extreme sense) is Aaron's Copland "Fanfare for the Common Man" from the Wilson Audio demo disc. I believe it's Telarc. it starts with the kettle drums and if one forgets to adjust the volume...
dynamics to make you jump out of your seat are also found on Karajan's Legendary Decca recordings. some of the best classical recordings that I've heard (but I'm not the biggest classical fan).
but I digress...
__________________
we all love a good ol' stereotype until it's against us
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 03:32 AM   #463
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
diyAudio Member
 
a.wayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Front Row Center
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5th element View Post
I thought about adding a test track too, something classical and very dynamic, the trouble is the copyright involved. I've got a high res 24/176.4 recording of Tchaikovsky's Hopak that was free to download from some website ages ago, I'm guessing that that would be okay? It's not too long and has some very large peaks relative to the quiet start and is rather fun to listen to.

I have converted it down to 44.1k 16bit and compressed it to a reasonably high quality FLAC and here's a download link. I also altered the level slightly so that the peak signal level of it hits 0dBfs too. How long the download will exist for I don't know

Tchaikovsky Hopak.flac

Pano may wish to download it and convert it perhaps into something different.
What , giving everyone the same recording to test ..... NOOOOOO! Sounds like a bad idea, I tell yah !!!
Don't do it , it's a simple test , stop it ....



.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 03:35 AM   #464
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
diyAudio Member
 
a.wayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Front Row Center
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
and some will say that Tchaikovsky sucks.
one other very dynamic recording (in the extreme sense) is Aaron's Copland "Fanfare for the Common Man" from the Wilson Audio demo disc. I believe it's Telarc. it starts with the kettle drums and if one forgets to adjust the volume...
dynamics to make you jump out of your seat are also found on Karajan's Legendary Decca recordings. some of the best classical recordings that I've heard (but I'm not the biggest classical fan).
but I digress...
You should try it push, make sure you have good batteries ......
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 04:00 AM   #465
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: At the output stage
Send a message via Yahoo to mr_push_pull
Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
You should try it push, make sure you have good batteries ......
you lost me on that one...
__________________
we all love a good ol' stereotype until it's against us
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 04:45 AM   #466
diyAudio Member
 
5th element's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Thanks for the test track. Don't know about leaving it here, I'll ask some other mods. If it was a free download, should not be a problem.

I also see it as at -19dB RMS, at least the loud section at the end - a good choice. But we'll still get complaints that it isn't adequate, or not dynamic enough, or that it's not related to the -12dB track, or something. It's been a bumpy road so far.
It was free at the time, I don't know whether it was only a promotional thing, but I found the link through some 'high res' thread over on some music forums.

The thing about the track is that the first 15-20 seconds of it average around -38dB, which is where you're likely to set your volume control so that the strings are at a nice volume. Then the last 15 seconds for the climax average -17dB with the bass drum pushing the level up to almost digital zero. I think a piece of music showing almost 40dB of 'real' dynamic range is quite good.

Of course lots of kettle drums are another thing entirely and the peak in the Tchaikovsky track only happens once. I am sure we could come up with better tracks and I personally would have preferred it if the track en massé had averaged around -10dB (normall for processed pop), but I think that might be a tough challenge. I could of course record myself playing the piano and do it deliberately as to accentuate the dynamic range...but that again wouldn't have any sustained long term average levels.

Now if someone wants me to rip the audio from the final fight scene in the incredibles...that's very VERY dynamically impressive, but probably only if you've got 20hz extension I literally had a smile on my face for the entire movie just from the way it sounded when I finally got the 'current' system together. Of course that would also be illegal.
__________________
What the hell are you screamin' for? Every five minutes there's a bomb or somethin'! I'm leavin! bzzzz! Droggon Attack!
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 11:04 AM   #467
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Thanks for the test track. Don't know about leaving it here, I'll ask some other mods. If it was a free download, should not be a problem.
About them test tracks. In the hydrogenaudio archives (or was it r3mix?) there should be a discussion about the legality of using and distributing samples from copyrighted music. Conclusion was that you could distribute a max. 30sek? sample for codec testing(or anykind I guess?) purposes. I am not a lawyer, not to mention the ACTA/SOPA/PITA fiasco lately, so take this what it's worth - elderly-women-in-the-sauna-talk

On topic now - seems that this crowd is not into movies? Luckily the whole chain from production to playbakc is standardized, whitch guarantees 20dB dynamic range. Just get an amp so that max_no_clip = 105dB and you're good to go (well, except speaker dynamic compression and various levels of harshness). On music? Anything with more headroom than K-10 I consider a good record. Sad really.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 03:21 PM   #468
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sitting behind the 'puter screen, in Illinois, USA, planet earth
Hi Pano
I want to say I had mixed feelings about posting about this from the beginning.
I really like the DIY area, that is my background. When I was a teen, a person I met and was mentored by, gradually put me on a different and better set of tracks in life. Some years later when I realized the impact he had, I gave him an invention I had, an acoustic levitator transducer which he then demonstrated to the new group of kids he was mentoring.

I asked what can I do to repay him, he said you will be able to answer questions, to help is what you can do for me. When Robert Oaks Jordan passed away, we lost an unsung audio pioneer but a person who changed many lives. Anyway, that’s why I post on some DIY forums occasionally and when I am working on something new, it is for me, essentially the same feeling I had playing in the sand box. I figure, most of the people who would be interested in this stuff are probably drawn to that feeling too.

I have had some time to think about “what it takes” and actually maybe the real issue is “do you have enough” for what you’re playing. Using the sine at the frequency you chose makes sense too, nothing I am talking about can be seen at the signal level without equipment most don’t have. The last thing I wanted to do was make anyone less likely to do the test or be curious.

In that vein, it has occurred to me there may be another test you could try or add, at least for people with two requirements, one, they have some ability to make an attenuator and that their amplifier is a conventional one where one side of the output is ground. The attenuator is one that lowers the amplifier output voltage down to approximately the same as the input voltage and of an input impedance that will not go up in smoke.
There is a freeware program an acquaintance has written which is for comparing music files for differences.
The idea is that it takes two files, aligns them in time and by inverting one and adding them, it adjusts to a null or residual difference. Thus, if the two signals really are identical, there is nothing left but what comes out is the difference signal. If one uses a sound card, most are identical L to R (except for latency) so this should work fairly well for this.

Audio DiffMaker

http://www.libinst.com/Detecting%20D...8slides%29.pdf

Now loudspeakers have far too many issues to use this with but if one used the input signal and the output voltage (through an appropriate attenuator) as the other, the same null would result, the difference between them you can hear.

While playing music X at level X, one can see if the amplifier residual has spikes or transient like stuff in it which happens when the output doesn’t track the input (including things like distortion). The cool part is you can hear it, the not cool part is there are no measurements, just auralization of it via the output file.

Best,
Tom
__________________
Bring back mst3k and futurama
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 04:37 PM   #469
diyAudio Member
 
5th element's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: England
Tom I still don't think you've grasped the concept of how the test works, not 100% because what you're suggesting is far more complicated then Pano's test, but in the end it would end up being no more effective.

If you were going to go to the trouble of actually recording the output of ones amplifier then something like Audio DiffMaker seems like the wrong piece of software to use and a little bit more complicated then is necessary (it also seems prone to problems, especially when I tried it out). If one wanted to record the output of their amplifier then all they'd need to do is record it playing music through an appropriate resistor divider and then analyse the peaks with something like audacity. If they are clipped it will be quite obvious I'd imagine. All of this of course does require one scales down the voltage appropriately because getting it wrong could fry the input to ones sound card! I've done that a few times when I've been lazy, but in my case all I need to to is replace a 50pence opamp
__________________
What the hell are you screamin' for? Every five minutes there's a bomb or somethin'! I'm leavin! bzzzz! Droggon Attack!
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th February 2012, 04:40 PM   #470
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
diyAudio Member
 
a.wayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Front Row Center
Tom... You hit it out of the park.... Unfortunately , we now can't find the ball ........
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LM3875 power up test.. and it crackles w/o speakers attached? Keyoke Chip Amps 9 2nd March 2012 01:39 AM
how to test chokes for current and voltage speakerfritz Tubes / Valves 10 20th October 2010 11:32 AM
Aleph 30 problem - half of power supply voltage on speakers output yoke Pass Labs 18 15th March 2009 05:18 PM
How to test speakers? zaydenam Multi-Way 2 27th August 2008 01:02 PM
Test speakers? Ryssen Multi-Way 3 2nd March 2004 10:54 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:11 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2