A Test. How much Voltage (power) do your speakers need? - Page 26 - diyAudio
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View Poll Results: I measured the test tone at:
2 volts or less 144 37.40%
Between 2-5 volts 130 33.77%
Between 5-10 volts 51 13.25%
Between 10-20 volts 24 6.23%
Over 20 volts. 36 9.35%
Voters: 385. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 4th February 2012, 12:49 AM   #251
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
So it would seem; as about 67% of those responding need 25 watts or less for their loudest levels.

Concert P.A.s are another matter, I'd love to see what voltages Tom is pushing for stadium sound. I can't tell you how much I use because all my P.A. speakers are powered (amp inside the speaker).
Can't you check from current draw....?
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Old 4th February 2012, 01:03 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by 5th element View Post
...
no, it's not BTL, it's half bridge. when writing 22V I was thinking about the DMM reading and forgot to convert to peak voltage.
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Old 4th February 2012, 01:07 AM   #253
Pano is online now Pano  United States
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Originally Posted by Tom Danley View Post
One of the things I have been talking about here is that the dynamic range of music can vary from type to type by such a large amount that this test does not take this into account.
Yes Tom, it does. It has been stated and explained over and over again. This is your fundamental objection to the test, and it has been explained many times.
AndrewT seems to have the same objection and also has missed the point.

Your objection to the variety of dynamic range on recordings vs this test has been addressed again and again. No one denies the importance of dynamic range across many recordings, but the issue has been explained by me and others.

Why don't you try the test on your home system? We would be happy to see your results. Pick a nice dynamic recording and play it as loud as you ever do. Then measure the test tone and report it here. It's not a difficult test.
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Old 4th February 2012, 01:12 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
Can't you check from current draw....?
Maybe, but it would be tricky. I don't know how efficient the amps are, tho I might be able to guess by measuring the mains idle current vs current on a signal.

But it really doesn't matter because I have no control over it. The speakers (mostly Meyer Sound) come with amps and active crossover inside. All I can do is supply a line level signal at the back and let the electronics inside do its thing.
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Old 4th February 2012, 01:14 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by Tom Danley View Post
Hi Art
One of the things I have been talking about here is that the dynamic range of music can vary from type to type by such a large amount that this test does not take this into account.

I was wondering if you have ever looked at the amplifier output voltage while playing music and watching the level indicators?

By the time speakers sound strained or clipped, one is massively nonlinear measurement wise and I am talking about faithful reproduction of the input signal.

My futile point has been that one must consider both the dynamic range of what one is producing AND the desired average loudness in order to estimate if one has enough power (because if you donít, the peaks will be clipped and you may never know it).
The ONLY way to know in a given circumstance is to look with a scope.
Best,
Tom
Your point has not been lost on me!

I donít have an scope, so I rely on the amps lying red lights, my ears and a dB meter to measure actual music peak output.

Like you, I have found amplifier's meters donít tell the whole story, I was surprised to see the old PSA 2 odep light coming on while it surpassed the SPL output of a modern amp rated about double itís power.

The QSC PL-series has great peak power, the Crest CA series does too, while both Crest and QSC have offerings that just donít cut the ďswing testĒ for low frequencies.

Brian Oppegard, formerly of QSC, has really made a good sounding seven pound sub amp (the Torpedo SP-4000), if he can get a few changes implemented that will increase the rail voltage, it will make the high power B&C stand up and talk, as it stands the CA-9 in mono has a tad more swing.

I wish I could justify the expense of going to some of the other new lightweight offerings that have more peak potential.

Art
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Old 4th February 2012, 01:23 AM   #256
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Strange I found the crest 10001 to be the best bass amp I have ever used ....
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Old 4th February 2012, 01:37 AM   #257
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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The test maybe flawed in some way pano , it's impossible for those with avg sensitivity speakers to get any high resolution sonics from 25 watts , 90 + db yes with limited dynamics .....

I will give it ago tonight .......
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Old 4th February 2012, 01:43 AM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Danley View Post
For an extreme example if one plays either the Harley recording or fireworks recording at the same volume setting as Velvet revolver, one will hardly be able to hear it, yet they both would have the same digital peak levels and if you turn the gain up, you will be raising the peak level accordingly and then clipping it off at 8V.

By the time speakers sound strained or clipped, one is massively nonlinear measurement wise and I am talking about faithful reproduction of the input signal.

My futile point has been that one must consider both the dynamic range of what one is producing AND the desired average loudness in order to estimate if one has enough power (because if you donít, the peaks will be clipped and you may never know it).
The ONLY way to know in a given circumstance is to look with a scope.
Best,
Tom
I'm looking at it in a different way.
I measured the voltage where my amp starts clipping by analyzing the output waveform. that is with a full scale (0 dBfs) sine input. I remembered the volume knob position where that happens and therefore I know that as long as the volume knob is below that specific position, nothing will be clipped, no matter what I listen to, be it pink noise, sine waves, heavy metal or classical.
if I turn it past that position I know that sooner or later clipping will happen. simples.
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Old 4th February 2012, 01:46 AM   #259
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Ok ,

Fly in the ointment, the test tone frequency , it's at that point where most speakers are very sensitive . IMO it would be best if the test tone was at center frequeny , 1k ....
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Old 4th February 2012, 01:47 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by mr_push_pull View Post
I'm looking at it in a different way.
I measured the voltage where my amp starts clipping by analyzing the output waveform. that is with a full scale (0 dBfs) sine input. I remembered the volume knob position where that happens and therefore I know that as long as the volume knob is below that specific position, nothing will be clipped, no matter what I listen to, be it pink noise, sine waves, heavy metal or classical.
if I turn it past that position I know that sooner or later clipping will happen. simples.
Your kidding right. ........!
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