Questions about veneering

[sbrtoy]

I have been reading up on veneering in anticipation of my first project and I have gotten many conflicting stories.

First off many DIY speaker builders use either yellow glue and an iron, or contact cement, but the woodworkers guides all frown on both of these methods.

Many suggest cold press glues but I do not have a vacuum press or a clamping system as elaborate as what they recommend.

Also I want to veneer the cabinet AFTER it is built so a vacuum press seems to be out of the question.

There is the method of hide glue which there seems to be less detailed instruction on, how much pressure does this need and is it the best option? Where do you get hide glue?

Any help with these questions is greatly appreciated.

Sam

[Pete Mazz]

As a cabinetmaker for many years (more than I like to admit), I can tell you firsthand that every cabinet shop I've ever seen used contact cement. The main difference is that we spray it on.

I have also done the yellow glue/ iron method for years on some projects and can also vouch for it's effectiveness and ease.

Here's a step by step I wrote up after answering the first hundred questions about the procedure.

As an alternative to contact cement, try ironing on with yellow glue.
1. Prep substrate (should be perfectly flat and clean).
2. Cut veneer 1/2"-1" oversize.
3. With a foam roller cover, apply coat of yellow glue mixed with a little water (to let it roll on easier) to the substrate (I usually just pour a little glue on the suface and roll it around)
4. Roll on a coat to back of veneer using push-pins or tape to hold it down flat. Make sure no glue gets on face of veneer!
5. Substrate may need second coat, especially edges. You want the material to be built up on the
surface.
6. Let dry.
7. Position veneer on substrate (it will not adhere without heat).
8. Using household iron set at high, proceed to iron on the veneer, starting at center and working out. Keep the iron moving slowly so as not to burn the veneer. (trial piece good idea to get the feel for it). Use edge of wood block to keep pressure on it as you iron.
9. Trim as usual.
10. Before glueing adjacent sides, apply masking tape to the edge of the veneered side where it
meets the raw face that will be getting glue next. Again, make sure no glue gets on the face of any of the veneer!!! (this applies to using contact cement also)

A couple of big advantages are:
Bond strength.
Ability to position veneer.
Surface will be FLAT when you're done. Contact cement is much more difficult to control, and really isn't recommended for unbacked veneer.

Pete

[jackinnj]

Peter

the only thing which I would add is that a veneering saw is very helpful compared to a utility knife -- last I checked these were under $10.

[Nappylady]

Veneering saw? Yellow glue? Does someone have pictures / linkies for these things? I have never seen, nor heard of them before.

Thanks.

[jackinnj]

yellow glue is PVA glue. the reason I prefer the contact cements is that they don't cause the fiber to expand, but I will defer to Peter with his professional experience.

Below is a veneer saw and a veneer roller which I bought from Constantines when they were in the Bronx.

[Erik]

I'm in the middle of a complex veneering job using unbacked veneer. I can vouch for Pete's thorough description of the process, to which i will add the following:

1. Titebond (yellow glue) works well.

2. Pick up a ShurLine 3 inch trim roller (sold at Home Despot). Works very well with the titebond (no thinning necessary).

3. Consider using a veneer softener with glue content if you are using unbacked, figured veneers. The softener helps reduce cracking of brittle veneer and the glue content sizes porous wood to prevent bleed-through.

4. Exacto knives work great for trimming. Change the blade often.

5. Use care and common sense when veneering over large driver cutouts on the front baffle. You want to avoid working around the hole only to find a big bump in the veneer once you reach the other side. I made this mistake once (ouch).

[Pete Mazz]

they don't cause the fiber to expand

But the veneer is so thin, it won't react on the substrate like solid wood. Once it's glued down, it doesn't have enough internal stress or strength to affect the work.

The worst part of this process is keeping the veneer flat while applying glue. I should have updated it to include:

2a) You can apply the glue to an entire sheet of veneer, let dry and then cut to size.

Pete

[Mos Fetish]

Which way is best to treat the driver cutouts?

a) make the cutouts then recut the veneer?

or

b) apply the veneer and then make the cutouts?

Mos

[Erik]

I think applying the veneer before doing the cutouts would be easier in general, but you would have to be very careful in doing the cutouts not to mar the surface.

A couple of more things my recent experiences have taught me.

1. Always put two coats of glue on the substrate. It's difficult to ensure complete coverage in a single pass. I found that very (VERY!) light sanding with 220 grit after the base coat gives a nice smooth surface for the second coat.

2. Applying glue to the back of the veneer is the best way to do iron on, but not if you are veneering large surfaces. Veneer will tend to wrinkle with the added moisture of the glue. Ironing small pieces flat shouldn't be a problem, but it can be real challenging with large surfaces.

For large surfaces, I apply three coats of glue to the substrate and only apply glue to the outer edges of the veneer (allowing for the overhang). You want the edges to be real tight if you want your handywork to become a family heirloom.

You will have the linger with the iron a bit longer, but it will work.

[Guss]

Hey guys, could you refer me to a good place where I could buy some mahogany veneer online ?