im close to building my bass player a new bass cab (experiment)
id like to use a subwoofer like this
Massive Audio*::*Archive*::*SUBWOOFERS*::*DC 10- Car Audio Subwoofer
from about 30 - 300hz
and a pair of 6" drivers from 300hz and up.
there will probably be about 600 watts available,
any help appreciated.
maybe this is a good start?
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-610
id like to use a subwoofer like this
Massive Audio*::*Archive*::*SUBWOOFERS*::*DC 10- Car Audio Subwoofer
from about 30 - 300hz
and a pair of 6" drivers from 300hz and up.
there will probably be about 600 watts available,
any help appreciated.
maybe this is a good start?
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-610
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I would seriously suggest an active X-over for a crossover this low and with as much power handling needs. I would suggest just using a stereo pro-audio amp with built in x-over. Use 1 channel for the lows and 1 for the highs: ( Crown XLS 1000 DriveCore Series Power Amplifier Flexible for Any Pro Audio Amplification Need 245-500 ) In the world of pro-sound, passive X-overs are avoided for low x-over points as much as possible.
I strongly suggest against the use of an overpriced inefficient car-sub. $310 for that? You could buy 2-3 very nice 18" pro drivers for that, and fill large venues with glorious intensity. All that car sub is going to do is be an embarrassment.
I strongly suggest against the use of an overpriced inefficient car-sub. $310 for that? You could buy 2-3 very nice 18" pro drivers for that, and fill large venues with glorious intensity. All that car sub is going to do is be an embarrassment.
i can get car subwoofers on the used market for 25% of retail.
high power handling small drivers = small loud bass cab.
this is for rehearsals only, a small great sounding cab (lets face it, most stock bass cabs sound kinda bad compared to a custom box right?)
high power handling small drivers = small loud bass cab.
this is for rehearsals only, a small great sounding cab (lets face it, most stock bass cabs sound kinda bad compared to a custom box right?)
Let me rephrase this: I would not suggest using a car sub for live music reproduction at any price. Live music usually sounds best when played through light weight pistons and strong motors, not heavy pistons with sloppy transients. Also, if you are looking to keep the system compact and portable, remember, many car subs are heavy monsters. A neo-magnet pro-driver could actually wind up making the system lighter, more portable etc.
Unless you have T/S parameters for the car sub (many brands don't publish them), then it's really not going to be a "custom" box, but rather, a guesswork project.
Unless you have T/S parameters for the car sub (many brands don't publish them), then it's really not going to be a "custom" box, but rather, a guesswork project.
I run a Fearful 15/6/1. I suggest you try it out, mine is amazing.
fEARful™ enclosures for bass/drums/keys
fEARful™ enclosures for bass/drums/keys
i hear what your saying but,
there are world class car audio systems that have excellent transients using car audio drivers (yes some use pro audio drivers but some dont)
i just looked at some graphs and the low end 'roll off' seems very early in the better bass guitar cabs
shelf extension, lower tuning
the low note on a 4 string bass is 41 z, 30 hz on a 5 string bass.
seems like about a 7 db difference from 100 to 40 hz in a bass guitar cab?
id like to try and get it flat to 30 hz.
im not stuck on car audio drivers, but some of them are built very tough
http://www.massiveaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=16245&cat=250&page=1
compared to
Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm 295-468
there are world class car audio systems that have excellent transients using car audio drivers (yes some use pro audio drivers but some dont)
i just looked at some graphs and the low end 'roll off' seems very early in the better bass guitar cabs
shelf extension, lower tuning
the low note on a 4 string bass is 41 z, 30 hz on a 5 string bass.
seems like about a 7 db difference from 100 to 40 hz in a bass guitar cab?
id like to try and get it flat to 30 hz.
im not stuck on car audio drivers, but some of them are built very tough
http://www.massiveaudio.com/store/product.php?productid=16245&cat=250&page=1
compared to
Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm 295-468
The effort of making the cabinet "flat" to under 30 is not necessary for an instrument like the electric bass. For one, there is room gain depending on the venue that would make your lower fundamentals overpowering.
"But you can just EQ that down"
Exactly. And why couldn't you simply EQ it up as well?
"..."
"But you can just EQ that down"
Exactly. And why couldn't you simply EQ it up as well?
"..."
If you build your own you can get basically whatever extension you want within reason. You just have to pick a driver/s with appropriate characteristics to meet your goals and build proper boxes for them.
Many car subs can give you near-flat or dead flat performance to 30hz in a small vented enclosure, however, when you actually model up a box you find out that the port dimensions are often going to have to take up as much space as the box anyways. So while they may be able to work in a smaller box space, the boxes don't wind up as small as you'd think they would. If you slap them in sealed boxes then you can forget about flat to 30hz on nearly about any driver made. (car subs included)
Without any T/S parameters listed, the RHINO driver is IMO, worthless. Companies like partsexpress will give you T/S specs on $3 factory buyout speakers.. Why is this Rhino company holding out on us with their $1500 speaker.
Eric
Many car subs can give you near-flat or dead flat performance to 30hz in a small vented enclosure, however, when you actually model up a box you find out that the port dimensions are often going to have to take up as much space as the box anyways. So while they may be able to work in a smaller box space, the boxes don't wind up as small as you'd think they would. If you slap them in sealed boxes then you can forget about flat to 30hz on nearly about any driver made. (car subs included)
Without any T/S parameters listed, the RHINO driver is IMO, worthless. Companies like partsexpress will give you T/S specs on $3 factory buyout speakers.. Why is this Rhino company holding out on us with their $1500 speaker.
Eric
Right, I'm going to say this once more and then give up.
Get your bassist to play bass through a system (a home hifi will be fine, just check the excursion as you turn it up) with a decent low-end response. See how that sounds. You might find it sounds pretty dire, and in fact you don't want the octave of rumbly low end (IMHO, there's so much to be saved by not going down there that I wouldn't try). You may well like it, but that's down to you: instead of jumping in blind thinking you want 40Hz extension, you can find out.
Also, how loud will this rehearsal rig need to go? If it needs to keep up with a loud drummer, you're going to need more than a 10" driver to get to 40Hz. 80Hz would be no problem.
Chris
Get your bassist to play bass through a system (a home hifi will be fine, just check the excursion as you turn it up) with a decent low-end response. See how that sounds. You might find it sounds pretty dire, and in fact you don't want the octave of rumbly low end (IMHO, there's so much to be saved by not going down there that I wouldn't try). You may well like it, but that's down to you: instead of jumping in blind thinking you want 40Hz extension, you can find out.
Also, how loud will this rehearsal rig need to go? If it needs to keep up with a loud drummer, you're going to need more than a 10" driver to get to 40Hz. 80Hz would be no problem.
Chris
I agree. I'm not really a musician, but used to play guitar and have 10 yrs experience as live sound engineer. I'm also a hifi nut, and have tried to go "hifi". It simply doesn't work. The transients a way to much for hifi drivers. If your bass player will do some salp bass, even a heavy duty 10" car woofer will die or sound really bad.
Behringer makes some very cheap class d amps with built in cross over. I would use them rather that a passive cross over in the bass region.
If you decide to go passive, then it's transforme core coils like these
http://www.monacor.de/en/products/s.../?webprodUnterpugID=577&webprodUnterpubID=641
Behringer makes some very cheap class d amps with built in cross over. I would use them rather that a passive cross over in the bass region.
If you decide to go passive, then it's transforme core coils like these
http://www.monacor.de/en/products/s.../?webprodUnterpugID=577&webprodUnterpubID=641
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