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Old 24th December 2011, 09:04 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
You could use multiple's of these:

Scan Speak 29001 Flow Resistance Vent 296-546

This is nothing more than some "lossy" rockwool fiber-board in a very shallow "cup" with a grill. You could diy this yourself with ease.

As for use it depends on the application, but often a surface area of "venting" is equal to about 1/2 to 2/3rd's the area of the driver and typically placed directly "behind" the drivers (on the rear panel of the loudspeaker). Too little and the effect is low, too much and you'll start to get pressure loss as a cardioid at lower freq.s (depending on box shape and size)..
This is interesting, but how do we calculate the required vent size and amount of resistance in the vent? Is there a rough rule thumb on that? How do we test the results to verify the design?
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Old 24th December 2011, 09:10 PM   #12
SunRa is offline SunRa  Romania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
Beyma: TPL 150H
PHL Audio: 3040, with DDS Horn: DMB 10N Pro
18Sound 15W500, with DDS Horn: DVB 15N Pro

Large aperiodic enclosures for the mid and bass.

Subwoofer*s* based on Precision Devices: PD2150
I dunno, waveguides and horns for cone woofers are really undocumented. I mean, we don't really have neither a theoretical framework for modelling them, as Geedes oblate spheroid, nor some kind of empirical aggregate as we have with LeCleach or other profiles.

So, while I am really enthusiastic for high SPL and I've thought much about waveguides for cone drivers, (fueled mostly by discussions around Omnitop in the aforementioned thread), if I would get to build a system I would really think deeply before taking that road. Not if I would want to replace a Wilson Max 2 anyway..
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Old 24th December 2011, 10:54 PM   #13
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Originally Posted by dirkwright View Post
This is interesting, but how do we calculate the required vent size and amount of resistance in the vent? Is there a rough rule thumb on that? How do we test the results to verify the design?
You won't get a truly accurate model. The generality is just that, general. A more empirical approach with testing is for those what to "go a bit further with it". The test itself is just Impedance and looking at the resonance in-box, the flatter it is the more it's working correctly.
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Old 24th December 2011, 11:12 PM   #14
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Originally Posted by SunRa View Post
I dunno, waveguides and horns for cone woofers are really undocumented. I mean, we don't really have neither a theoretical framework for modelling them, as Geedes oblate spheroid, nor some kind of empirical aggregate as we have with LeCleach or other profiles.

So, while I am really enthusiastic for high SPL and I've thought much about waveguides for cone drivers, (fueled mostly by discussions around Omnitop in the aforementioned thread), if I would get to build a system I would really think deeply before taking that road. Not if I would want to replace a Wilson Max 2 anyway..
DDS has the polar's of their waveguides. From there it's just a matter of a linear freq. response and selecting a crossover point/type for a better polar integration between the drivers - NOT that any of that is trivial, but that wasn't really the point of discussion for this thread (or at least it didn't seem that way to me).

The OP seems to be looking for *drivers* related to:
1. a Horn/waveguide system, and
2. good presentation of depth, and
3. a large-room system with dynamics at least equal to Wilson Audio offerings.

1 & 2 are often "at odds" with each other. The drivers I've mentioned (further loaded in the fashion I've mentioned), should result in improved perception of depth and clarity when compared to most compression drivers.
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Old 25th December 2011, 04:07 AM   #15
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someone will give me leap 5, so basic box size, vent size, basic diffraction friendly baffle will be ok.., i suppose, there are some trick...which a software may not offer. and i have not yet installed it yet. , not to mention...is the MDF will be OK? if yes..thickness for the front..etc...does size ratio matter...or..Golden box ratio ? 1:0.68:1.68..etc ..think ply good is better? or if i so demanding..i better sandwich something? Glass Fabic cannot compared with long hair wool? Matrix internal wall is a waste of time? Cap and Resistors...choices for fast bass...or some Cap will slow down the bass? or Some..will indeed sound darker..or transparent?

yes i aware of the conflict about "depth " with horn, i heard wonderful width from horns, and super layering and depth from dynamic speakers

i am also looking for quality 12" or 15" woofers too

Just taking about the MId to not not so High frequency , i think a good horn with a good compression driver will likely outperform most dynamic speakers in many area, apart from "depth" - this lead to 2 questions for me at least - one driver from 600hz to the end..or 2 drivers..a mid from 600 to 12K, then a tweeter , or 600hz to 1200hz then a tweeter..or..to 8000hz..to..etc.. mix and match dirvers..example radian with a goto tweeter is a big no no or..eetc.. , of coz assumed i get the cross over correct and able to deal with the time alignment

i am a typical person without DIY any speaker in the past, so i have a lot of wondering

"Polar Integration" ..crossover design..etc..will be the next step - after i finalize my plan for the drivers, it is a bit too soon ,and of coz, any advice and reminder is much appreciated

the Maxx 2 by any mean is one of the very good speaker , however it is just a bit too small in my room, it is part of my warehosue, ceiling is about 11fts, width is about 22ft

haha merry chrristmas, some of you may be Christmas now..or soon..haha
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Old 25th December 2011, 04:10 AM   #16
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Click the image to open in full size.

i like that..
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Old 25th December 2011, 07:56 AM   #17
SunRa is offline SunRa  Romania
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Here is some further inspiration

Hinkelsteine
quattro stagioni
Leistungsdruck

The last two are with a coaxial CD from BMS. You can work something like that, with one of the horns from jzagaja, like the one you posted, or something else.. Take a look also at the Octagon I linked earlier, serious well documented stuff there also..

A very informative thread and a system build you can find here

Last edited by SunRa; 25th December 2011 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 25th December 2011, 09:01 AM   #18
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wow wow...so impressive works, sandwiched of GF, MDF and Concrete..
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Old 25th December 2011, 12:55 PM   #19
SunRa is offline SunRa  Romania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
DDS has the polar's of their waveguides. From there it's just a matter of a linear freq. response and selecting a crossover point/type for a better polar integration between the drivers - NOT that any of that is trivial, but that wasn't really the point of discussion for this thread (or at least it didn't seem that way to me).

The OP seems to be looking for *drivers* related to:
1. a Horn/waveguide system, and
2. good presentation of depth, and
3. a large-room system with dynamics at least equal to Wilson Audio offerings.

1 & 2 are often "at odds" with each other. The drivers I've mentioned (further loaded in the fashion I've mentioned), should result in improved perception of depth and clarity when compared to most compression drivers.
Hi Scott,

I admit that your recommendation suits hahayan's request in terms of spl, however I am not sure if it would be an accessible build for a beginner. Simply publishing the polar's, while it's admirable it's not enough for ensuring a critical listening system (again, he replaces maxx2). From what I know, those cone driver horns can reveal a whole can of worms, from high order modes, due to mismatch between various cone profiles and the dds horn, diffraction effects due to lack of optimization at the throat, etc. I guess you got my point by now. Although I have to admit, if I'd had the means I would definitively give it a try, because it seems such a fun system to build.

By the way, I remember considering 18Sound 15W500 myself at some point, not for a horn system, but as a direct radiator. Although it is not the most featured high sensitivity woofer from 18Sound (it lacks shorting rings, AIC, etc) I liked the seemingly flat frequency response and the clean impedance curve, free of resonances. It wouldn't be an easy load, even if it is a high sensitivity driver, due to the lack of copper in the motor and the rising impedance curve, but still, it appealed to me. Any other reasons you liked this woofer?

Last edited by SunRa; 25th December 2011 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 25th December 2011, 03:57 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
You won't get a truly accurate model. The generality is just that, general. A more empirical approach with testing is for those what to "go a bit further with it". The test itself is just Impedance and looking at the resonance in-box, the flatter it is the more it's working correctly.
I'll check Basta! to see if it has a model for this. I can check impedance no problem.
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