Converting Altec Drivers to 416B or C

[tmblack]

A local shop says they can convert other drivers to 416.
Is it really the same speaker if you use a 421 frame and put the 416 reconing kit with spider and VC on it?

Any other speaker frames that might fit the 416 recones?

[weltersys]

Originally Posted by tmblack

A local shop says they can convert other drivers to 416.
Is it really the same speaker if you use a 421 frame and put the 416 reconing kit with spider and VC on it?

Any other speaker frames that might fit the 416 recones?

The baffle opening for the 416 (a nominal 16" speaker) is 14 &1/8", the 421 is 13& 5/8". The flux density is different for both speakers.

Assuming the 416 cone was cut down to fit the 421, it still won't be the same speaker. Not to say it may not be a decent speaker after the conversion, but it certainly won't be the same as a stock 416.

Other than Altec, I'm not aware of other 16" speakers.

[4642a]

are the TAD woofers considered to be 16" framed?

[tmblack]

Do you have a graph of the freq response of a 416B and 421 and 515 near field(open baffle)?
Altec shows the 421 having less bass starting around 200Hz. Is that due to the stiff suspension?

[weltersys]

Originally Posted by tmblack

Do you have a graph of the freq response of a 416B and 421 and 515 near field(open baffle)?
Altec shows the 421 having less bass starting around 200Hz. Is that due to the stiff suspension?

No, have not seen the graphs.

The 416 has an FS of 25 Hz, the 421 40 Hz, I'd expect the 416 to go lower.

I don't have much experience with Altec, I was playing around with Gauss, EV and JBL back in the era of these drivers.

[tmblack]

What are EV equivalents or choices for a 2-way system?
You mentioned the EV DH1.

[weltersys]

Originally Posted by tmblack

What are EV equivalents or choices for a 2-way system?
You mentioned the EV DH1.

I also mentioned that I prefer the sound of a small cone driver to a 15" or a compression driver in the frequency range from around 100-1000 Hz, which allows for uncompromised lows, mids, and highs. Costs less, sounds better, wider bandwidth, less distortion. The low crossover allows the LF to be separated from the (small) top cabinet, a very desirable feature for most listening rooms.

The EV DL15W went low and sounded good to 1K or so, but the 1500-3K range has a large peak, making crossover design difficult to get right.

Rather than look to the past, if I wanted a 2 way design using a compression driver HF I'd pick up one of Earl Geddes kits. He has addressed the limitations of a two way design for home use quite well.

Art Welter

[tmblack]

What are the 411 woofers like?
I like to recreate the VOTT theatre sound, but there is nothing wrong with the Econowave kits.

[limono]

Originally Posted by tmblack

What are the 411 woofers like?
I like to recreate the VOTT theatre sound, but there is nothing wrong with the Econowave kits.

They are (411) not bad and do have that altec sound but also require large sealed enlosure (I'd say at least 6cu.ft) to take advantage of their low fs. are only 92-93 dB and require more power to come to life without having the capacity to handle a lot but OK for normal listenning. They also should not be crossed higher than 300-500Hz. My friend is using a pair in 3.5 cu ft crossed to 511 Horns with 806 drivers and default altec crossover. You won't mistake it for audiophile speaker with peaking MF horn but if you listen to rock, club jazz, and life recordings ,jeez I didn't hear better sounding guitars nor did I smell the scent of cigars in the Jazz Club . Regular speakers will sound like popoo after you heard this. Unfortunatelly my hey days are long over and they sound like C. R.A.P on classical music.
411-8A are not cheap anymore

[zelgall]

Originally Posted by tmblack

A local shop says they can convert other drivers to 416.
Is it really the same speaker if you use a 421 frame and put the 416 reconing kit with spider and VC on it?

Any other speaker frames that might fit the 416 recones?

The 421 can be reconed with a 416 kit but there is a bit of difference in the position of the coil. I've had this done on a pair of 421-8LFs and with a Woofer tester II the TS differences are small. There's more difference in sample to sample of each real 416 than the average of the reconed ones. The 420A in either the 15" or 16" frame version are identical to the 416-8A and 416-8B respectively. They can be reconed as 416s. The catch is getting someone to do it properly ie with real Altec recone kits. The aftermarket kits aren't that great so the best would be to see if Great Plains would do it or get the kits off them. Shipping for these drivers is expensive due to size and weight. Also, the 421s are rear vented and the 416 is vented through the dust cap. A piece of tape on the rear vent in the middle of the magnet will suffice.
Kyle.