K&T Competition: Please help me understand this design.

[dublin78]

I am looking for a new speaker project.

I have had to sell by beloved AOS Studio12XL standmounts as my baby boy is crawling now: Scan-Speak

I am now looking for a low level (max height 65cm) floorstanding speaker kit/design.

I am wanting: Low distortion. Warm sound. Good/excellent off-axis dispersion.

I have been thinking of an adapted three-way design (utilising a passive radiator and stuffing to make up for the reduced bass cabinet volume (I can get to about 40litres)).

I have also started to look at MTM designs, which would be a simpler build, but this would mean that the tweeter was even lower.

The Klang & Ton Competion design has come to my attention for various reasons: http://www.klangundton.de/wp-content...ompetition.pdf

Please could someone advise me on the character of these? I am not very good at understanding what the graphs or waterfalls indicate, and I do not speak German.

My front end is Twisted Pear Buffalo II DAC, and Hypex UCD180HG Hxr amps.

My budget is flexible but 600EUR+

[dabbler]

Very hard to accurately deduce the character of a speaker from those published measurements, even harder for others to convey it back to you!

MTM would be useless if you need a LOW floor stander anyway, you really need the tweeter at ear level or higher.

Have you thought about keeping your 12XL and firmly mounting them on low woofer cabinets like this: Jensen-1071

Safer than a standmount...check
Deeper bass over a standmount...check

[tr westwood]

hi,

can´t say anything about the sound. but designer is a professional developer with a good reputation. if i recall correctly he did some stuff for tannoy, too. so, he knows what he does.

but i don´t think this speaker will fit your needs. as dabbler said: the tweeter has to be on ear height or maybe higher or below. that depends on the crossover filter slope.

i would go the same way as dabbler. and add a 8" or 10" scan speak driver to get a 3-way speaker.
then get a cheap active crossover and poweramp, put the crossover to the subwoofer to 60-80Hz. and be happy. then you have the best of both world. a perfect passiv Hi/Mid crossover and an activ bass.

[dublin78]

Thank you for your replies.

I did think long and hard about rebuilding my Studio12s into a three way cabinet, with an active subwoofer, but I felt that it would always be a compromised design as the "midrange" driver would be running fullrange. It would work fine, I guess, but not optimised unless a new XO was designed.

Anyway, I have sold the Studio12s now, and they have been collected.

Perhaps I should think more about adapting a 3 way design to less bass cab volume?

[dublin78]

I forgot to mention that I used to enjoy my Studio12s when they were placed on the floor.

They had excellent dispersion characteristics (off-axis response). Also, the bass was enhanced slightly.

[bear]

Kind of confusing. The speaker in K+T is very similar to the one you just sold, a bit larger, but similar.

The specs on the tweeter in the K+T project are rather good judging by the waterfall. The freq resp rises slightly, but that is an easy correction if you need it... but the downside of a ribbon like that is very very poor vertical axis polar response.

Your issue is that the baby might knock over a speaker stand... so you have two choices, get the speakers off the floor or get a big heavy speaker for the floor - or screw the stands to the floor (or a similar solution), speakers to the stands.

Not seeing your room means that the rest of us have to guess about what might work.
Do you own the flat/house? Makes a diff as to what you might be able to do with it.

Consider that a baby on the floor is likely to lean on, put hands on, scratch, bang whatever is on or near the floor? Grille cloth/speaker protection is an issue.

How about height? maybe a TQWT type box which is much larger, but can use smaller drivers, similar to the type you favor now? This also gets the speakers up off the floor...
and gets you solid bass, btw.

_-_-bear

[dublin78]

If ribbons in general have very poor vertical off-axis performance, then this design is definitely out. One of the reasons for considering the K&T Competition was that it used this ribbon driver, as I had read that it's sister driver, the Neo Pro 5i has excellent off axis performance, both horizontal and vertical - Sorry, I can't find the article. Maybe I dreamed it?

Bear: My speakers will need to be:

Shorter than 63cm
Heavy and solid, to stop accidental tipping over.
Capable of having a grille fitted to them.

My listening room is 6m x 4m.
Our house is detached with no neighbours.
We own it.

TIA

[tr westwood]

i really don`t get the 63cm.

maybe some coax speaker as nearly in-wall speaker will fit? so you can hang/srew them on/to the wall? i mean really flat loudpeaker enclosures. then you put them right against the wall and safe them with some srews so they cannot tilt. and coaxes have great dispersion by the way.

maybe with an seas or excel coax.

[bear]

Smallish room... I'd suggest you consider seriously an IB set up, since you own the house.
Among the advantages:

- zero footprint
- bass down to Fs for the LF driver
- response = spec'd response in an IEC baffle or better.
- size = no limit
- potentially a higher class result than a small enclosure

Or fly them from the ceiling...

Small ribbons, ones that are essentially square act more like point sources and have almost equal dispersion in the vertical and horizontal axis.

Give serious consideration to an IB set up. They can be built as "screw in" units, virtually indistinguishable from the wall, if wanted...

Another idea, depending on ur room set up is to "fly" small speakers of the sort you favor from the rear wall - essentially the stands mount to the rear of the speaker and go to the wall...

Or you can go with a floor to ceiling line source, connected on the floor and ceiling. Won't tip over. That can be dynamic drivers, ribbon or ESL...

_-_-