HI! I was hoping to find some answers before I make some decisions I might regret 
I am planning on building a sealed boombox. For this I already have a box that has a 12L enclosure, which makes it 6L for each speaker in stereo. The purpose of the boombox is to take it with me over to friends apartments for small partys. So by having very sensitive speakers is not the main goal, but to get something that sounds very audiophile at the same time as I am getting enough low bass and loudness. I have found 2 woofers that fullfill these requirements, but I CANNOT decide which one to buy! PLEASE let me know what you guys think I should go with. Sealed Enclosure it is.
Monacor SPH-176 VS Monacor SPH-170
Sensitivity: 90dB (1W/1m)
Qts: 0.37 | 0.44
Fs: 39Hz | 38Hz
Vas: 27L | 37L
Xmax: 5.5mm | 3.0mm
BxL: 7.7Tm | 5.9Tm
Moving mass: 14g | 12.5g
Sd: 140cm2 | 137cm2
Vb: 5L (Calculating out 1+1L cus of electronic stuff + magnets.)
Qtc: 0.93 | 1.27
F3: 79.8Hz | 79.4Hz
F10: 53.0Hz | 56.7Hz
Fb: 98.0Hz | 109.6Hz
Monacor SPH-176:
Monacor SPH-170:
I am planning on building a sealed boombox. For this I already have a box that has a 12L enclosure, which makes it 6L for each speaker in stereo. The purpose of the boombox is to take it with me over to friends apartments for small partys. So by having very sensitive speakers is not the main goal, but to get something that sounds very audiophile at the same time as I am getting enough low bass and loudness. I have found 2 woofers that fullfill these requirements, but I CANNOT decide which one to buy! PLEASE let me know what you guys think I should go with. Sealed Enclosure it is.
Monacor SPH-176 VS Monacor SPH-170
Sensitivity: 90dB (1W/1m)
Qts: 0.37 | 0.44
Fs: 39Hz | 38Hz
Vas: 27L | 37L
Xmax: 5.5mm | 3.0mm
BxL: 7.7Tm | 5.9Tm
Moving mass: 14g | 12.5g
Sd: 140cm2 | 137cm2
Vb: 5L (Calculating out 1+1L cus of electronic stuff + magnets.)
Qtc: 0.93 | 1.27
F3: 79.8Hz | 79.4Hz
F10: 53.0Hz | 56.7Hz
Fb: 98.0Hz | 109.6Hz
Monacor SPH-176:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Monacor SPH-170:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
As far as specific drivers go.. I don't know where intend to order from so can't really say specifically. Just thinking that there are a lot of ~5" drivers out there that would provide a flatter response down into the lower bass ranges in that limited box size.
The 6.5" drivers in sealed are just going to require more EQ and amplification power to play down to ~50hz, which is what I would suggesting shooting for as your bottom end.
The 6.5" drivers in sealed are just going to require more EQ and amplification power to play down to ~50hz, which is what I would suggesting shooting for as your bottom end.
Deep bass isnt really what I am looking for, what I seek is actually more of a punchy bass which I believe u get more from 6.5" elements... And the speakers has to have a minimum of 90dB sensitivity. I cant seem to find anything better than the Monacor SPH-176 for this kind of small enclosure that still performs good in a sealed enclosure!
The adjectives we use to describe bass performance will vary from person to person dramatically. What some call "tight," will be another persons "lacking bottom end." Some people will say it sounds "smooth" which usually means it doesn't have a peaky or "boomy" effect in a certain frequency range. Some people will use the word "fast" or the words "good transient response" to describe bass that can slam those "tighter" complex notes with greater precision. While onother might use that same term "fast" to describe a system that simply lacks the deep stuff. Someone might say "deep," while another might say "muddy."
To make matters worse, all of these words are apt to get used interchangeably to describe all of the various circumstances listed above with those terms I have listed depending on the persons personal preferences and experience.
Having said all that, if the bottom end is not truly important for the build, then whether you go with 5" or 6.5" woofers really isn't going to matter much on that aspect....
In your original post, it sounded to me like you were not interested in efficiency, (translation issue I suspect). Now I understand you are looking for good efficiency. If I were personally building a portable boom box, especially if I intended to run it on a portable power source (not sure what your plans are for that), I would use sound reinforcement style 6.5" drivers for the mid-bass, and a high efficiency dome, ribbon, or planar for the high end. (just try to match the drivers for efficiency so that you don't have to pad a driver, adding unnecessary complication).
To make matters worse, all of these words are apt to get used interchangeably to describe all of the various circumstances listed above with those terms I have listed depending on the persons personal preferences and experience.
Having said all that, if the bottom end is not truly important for the build, then whether you go with 5" or 6.5" woofers really isn't going to matter much on that aspect....
In your original post, it sounded to me like you were not interested in efficiency, (translation issue I suspect). Now I understand you are looking for good efficiency. If I were personally building a portable boom box, especially if I intended to run it on a portable power source (not sure what your plans are for that), I would use sound reinforcement style 6.5" drivers for the mid-bass, and a high efficiency dome, ribbon, or planar for the high end. (just try to match the drivers for efficiency so that you don't have to pad a driver, adding unnecessary complication).
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Hi Veloxy. Interesting project. While reading about your challenge it seems to have conflicting needs. It would be good to know how important getting loud is with this. It would be tempting to suggest something like this woofer because it would allow you to go louder and even to equalise the bass a little. Except that it isn't known for its great upper midrange and you'd need a special tweeter or three way to do it, so a 6.5" would be preferrable to you but only if it is capable of meeting your volume levels and bass requirements.
There doesn't seem to be a great deal of difference between the woofers so far. I think as long as you achieve a flat response down to at least 100Hz, you'll be achieving something. It is beneficial that you have a somewhat wide surface to mount them on, although I think that room placement will play an important part in a successful end result. You'll want to find a place near a wall or corner that can sound good once you build these.
I have a reservation about you using a suitcase. What is it made of? I am concerned the 'front' panel will vibrate and give or take a lot from the woofer. To this end it might be worth lining the woofer panel with something to stiffen it. Due to the fact that it will still vibrate like this I'd also go to some lengths to dampen it from vibration.
I am also thinking that the whole cabinet would 'breathe' (expand etc.) with the woofer causing it to perhaps act similarly to a port in a vented enclosure. Who knows that this might be a good thing but be prepared to throw a little damping material around if it doesn't bode well in your case. To this end I would try to leave the case openable for the time being, maybe finding something you could line the rim with to form a gasket.
There doesn't seem to be a great deal of difference between the woofers so far. I think as long as you achieve a flat response down to at least 100Hz, you'll be achieving something. It is beneficial that you have a somewhat wide surface to mount them on, although I think that room placement will play an important part in a successful end result. You'll want to find a place near a wall or corner that can sound good once you build these.
I have a reservation about you using a suitcase. What is it made of? I am concerned the 'front' panel will vibrate and give or take a lot from the woofer. To this end it might be worth lining the woofer panel with something to stiffen it. Due to the fact that it will still vibrate like this I'd also go to some lengths to dampen it from vibration.
I am also thinking that the whole cabinet would 'breathe' (expand etc.) with the woofer causing it to perhaps act similarly to a port in a vented enclosure. Who knows that this might be a good thing but be prepared to throw a little damping material around if it doesn't bode well in your case. To this end I would try to leave the case openable for the time being, maybe finding something you could line the rim with to form a gasket.
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The suitcase is pretty much the only case I got, already bhought it for the boombox purpose and its dimensions are 45x35x10 cm. I have calculated that the inner volume is 12L to be precise, which makes it into 6L for each speaker in stereo...
Even though my plan was to go sealed theres some that have recommended me to go bass reflex. I currently have a amp6 from 41hz ready, so there are some limitations in power. I kinda feel lost... My main goal was to build a speaker that could give VERY nice punchy bass! Being able to play loud would also be cool! For that reason, I believe 90db (1w/1m) is a minimum require?
For sealed purposes I have searched for the whole internet after a valiable speaker and after ALOT of simulations I have come to a conclusion that either the Monacor SPH-170 or SPH-176 are the best picks for a 12L enclosure.
However, I havent been looking into every speaker that is suitable for bass reflex in such a small enclosure which is why I ask you here at DIYaudio if you have any valid ideas?
There's one candidate I have found which is the SB15NRXC30-4
Even though my plan was to go sealed theres some that have recommended me to go bass reflex. I currently have a amp6 from 41hz ready, so there are some limitations in power. I kinda feel lost... My main goal was to build a speaker that could give VERY nice punchy bass! Being able to play loud would also be cool! For that reason, I believe 90db (1w/1m) is a minimum require?
For sealed purposes I have searched for the whole internet after a valiable speaker and after ALOT of simulations I have come to a conclusion that either the Monacor SPH-170 or SPH-176 are the best picks for a 12L enclosure.
However, I havent been looking into every speaker that is suitable for bass reflex in such a small enclosure which is why I ask you here at DIYaudio if you have any valid ideas?
There's one candidate I have found which is the SB15NRXC30-4
Good in theory, although for one thing if you are going to be tuning it to a higher frequency like you may be here, the power handling due to cone excursion could possibly give you worse results than sealed.
The other issue is that with a lossy cabinet, you may have trouble tuning it, especially without measuring it, and the closed would be more tolerant of this.
If by punchy, you mean it has a clear and weighted strike, then this is an upper bass/lower midrange issue. If by punchy you mean you feel it in your gut, then you'll be compromising no matter which driver you choose.
Sorry, this only relates to how much amplifier power it takes to get a certain amount of sound out of these. Playing loud is about how much air the cones can move, and it is also greater if you can control the bass.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHH I BELIEVE... I HAVE FOUND THE LEGENDARY WOOFER!
seriously, I have spent more than 5 hours each day, for more than a month searching for the best possible setup and I finally BELIEVE I HAVE FOUND IT!
The speaker thats gonna be working in a 12L enclosure... IS:
ScanSpeak 18w/4434G00-04
this one is 4 ohm, which is perfect! around 7" AAAANNDD it will deliver in a small bass reflex enclosure! 91dB sensitivity is GOODISH
seriously, I have spent more than 5 hours each day, for more than a month searching for the best possible setup and I finally BELIEVE I HAVE FOUND IT!
The speaker thats gonna be working in a 12L enclosure... IS:
ScanSpeak 18w/4434G00-04
this one is 4 ohm, which is perfect! around 7" AAAANNDD it will deliver in a small bass reflex enclosure! 91dB sensitivity is GOODISH
It's not 91dB sensitive, it's more like 88db... They gave the sensitivity rating based on 2.83V, which is used for 8ohm speakers. When you use the same 2.83V to figure sensativity on something other than an 8Ohm speaker, what you are getting is USPL as the resulting specification (normalized result for a specific voltage, rather than power level).
Proper sensitivity ratings (1W@1M) for a 4 ohm speaker needs to be taken at 2.0V.
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What about putting a single 8" DVC woofer in the middle, crossed over to some full range 2-3" drivers on either side of it? , then maybe use some heavily padded piezos for above ~8-10K. Just an idea
Otherwise I think I would suggest sound reinforcement type mid-woofers on either side to get more efficiency from.
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I just looked up the amp6 on 41hz's website. No specifications given for their amps (maybe you have to dig through their forums to find em?)... Either way I haven't the motivation or care to "dig" for the answer. If you could just tell me what sort of amplification capabilities the amp6 has, that would at least help me make better driver suggestions.
Eric
Proper sensitivity ratings (1W@1M) for a 4 ohm speaker needs to be taken at 2.0V.
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What about putting a single 8" DVC woofer in the middle, crossed over to some full range 2-3" drivers on either side of it? , then maybe use some heavily padded piezos for above ~8-10K. Just an idea
Otherwise I think I would suggest sound reinforcement type mid-woofers on either side to get more efficiency from.
--------------------------
I just looked up the amp6 on 41hz's website. No specifications given for their amps (maybe you have to dig through their forums to find em?)... Either way I haven't the motivation or care to "dig" for the answer. If you could just tell me what sort of amplification capabilities the amp6 has, that would at least help me make better driver suggestions.
Eric
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i dont know if this fits you but what about pro woofers + a 8" sub ?
http://www.eighteensound.com/
if you could go to a 8" woofer this looks good
http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=313
mdocod idea is very good too
http://www.eighteensound.com/
if you could go to a 8" woofer this looks good
http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=313
mdocod idea is very good too
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The BoomCase© by Mr. Simo | Vintage Suitcase BoomBoxes this is basicly what I want to build. So it has to be quite light weight also...
The amp6 delivers 25W in stereo for each channel when using 4 ohm speakers...
What do you mean by sound reinforcement type mid-woofers?
The amp6 delivers 25W in stereo for each channel when using 4 ohm speakers...
What do you mean by sound reinforcement type mid-woofers?
my enclosure looks pretty close to this one The BoomCase Store / BriefBox. I should note that its a hard case so I doubt its gonna vibrate much at all...
The difference is that he has gone sealed, although I am thinking of going bass reflex using the ScanSpeak 18w/4434G00-04 perhaps incase I cannot find anything better! I been thinking of having the port at the bottom of the case.
The difference is that he has gone sealed, although I am thinking of going bass reflex using the ScanSpeak 18w/4434G00-04 perhaps incase I cannot find anything better! I been thinking of having the port at the bottom of the case.
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Mentioning this brand will cause some to cringe, but if you want good "party bass" in other words, bass that's punchy & powerful but also reaches reasonably low so it can be punchy & powerful, for decades I have noticed that Cerwin-Vega's speakers, even their largest models with 15" woofers in 4 cu/ft ported enclosures, almost never have useful output below @40Hz. There's a reason so many people buy them for that one purpose, and if you've ever heard them properly set-up*, you know that their bass is clean i.e. boom-free and has that "fun" quality that can hit you in the chest out on a living room's improvised dance floor, even with smallish amps. Admittedly not great for pipe organ music but for Led Zeppelin, De La Soul and Lady Gaga.....
* this does not include dorm rooms where the speakers have been pushed into the corners of the room and the bass control on the stressed-out and clipping $200 receiver has been turned to "max" and the loudness circuit activated
* this does not include dorm rooms where the speakers have been pushed into the corners of the room and the bass control on the stressed-out and clipping $200 receiver has been turned to "max" and the loudness circuit activated
Hello Veloxy,
By sound reinforcement driver, I mean drivers that have been built with characteristics that lend themselves to high efficiency, low distortion, and usually aggressive power handling capabilities, often, those characteristics will come at the expense of bottom end extension, and in the case of less expensive reinforcement drivers, often also at the expensive of flatness.
As it turns out, since this style of driver, is generally marketed towards portable loudspeakers for use in live performances, many of them are available with light weight designs utilizing neodymium magnets and light weight basket construction.
This driver is a great example of a mid-woofer that would do well as a "boom box" portable party in a suitcase speaker: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=294-647
It models nicely in 4-6L vented boxes per driver, making it ideal for this... Plan on spending 2L of box space on the vent, (I came up with 3.5" x 10.5" port size, which would probably wind up consuming about 2L)... Such a build delivers an F3 of ~80hz and an F10 around 60hz. This is technically low enough to present itself as having some bottom end, but it's nothing special.
At 10WPC you can count on ~105dB or better listening levels at 1 meter.
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Hello 454,
I'm under the impression that this is a portable unit here where actual power efficiency may very well come into play as being important. The suitcase style units I have seen usually have a built in rechargeable power supply, and even if that's not the case here, improving efficiency means the design can get away with a smaller power supply for the amp anyways.
By sound reinforcement driver, I mean drivers that have been built with characteristics that lend themselves to high efficiency, low distortion, and usually aggressive power handling capabilities, often, those characteristics will come at the expense of bottom end extension, and in the case of less expensive reinforcement drivers, often also at the expensive of flatness.
As it turns out, since this style of driver, is generally marketed towards portable loudspeakers for use in live performances, many of them are available with light weight designs utilizing neodymium magnets and light weight basket construction.
This driver is a great example of a mid-woofer that would do well as a "boom box" portable party in a suitcase speaker: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=294-647
It models nicely in 4-6L vented boxes per driver, making it ideal for this... Plan on spending 2L of box space on the vent, (I came up with 3.5" x 10.5" port size, which would probably wind up consuming about 2L)... Such a build delivers an F3 of ~80hz and an F10 around 60hz. This is technically low enough to present itself as having some bottom end, but it's nothing special.
At 10WPC you can count on ~105dB or better listening levels at 1 meter.
------
Hello 454,
I'm under the impression that this is a portable unit here where actual power efficiency may very well come into play as being important. The suitcase style units I have seen usually have a built in rechargeable power supply, and even if that's not the case here, improving efficiency means the design can get away with a smaller power supply for the amp anyways.
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