Building 3-way speakers

[Ninesvnsicks]

Originally Posted by 454Casull

Including cabinets?

Well no I was just going to build the cabinets myself.

Originally Posted by adason

than start by building this
TriTrix MTM TL Speaker Components And Cabinet Kit Pair 300-702
and if you do not have enough bass, build an active sub

I already have the plate amp and sub and I'm going to build the box for the active sub tomorrow hopefully.

Originally Posted by sreten

Hi, the Tarkus has 10" bass drivers and dips to 5 ohms in places, rgds, sreten.

Very near your budget, see the BOM link. Won't get better bass at the price.

What BOM link?

[mdocod]

I'm trying to figure out why your mains need 10" drivers and a 3-way design if you are already planning on building that 15" sub (making a 4 way system)... You don't generally want to produce your bass both on your mains and at the sub, you want to cross them over. A pair of 10" is very overkill for a single 15" sub as far as mating is concerned in a properly crossed over configuration. The single 15" sub will never be able to "keep up" with a pair of 10s being used as mid-bass units. I guess, the point is, the mains will never be fully utilized with the sub as the limitation here.

I would suggest a smaller build for the mains with either 2 x 5-7" drivers or a single 8" driver per side. You'll be able to focus more on quality crossover components, quality drivers, and impedance correction for the crossover to function right.

4-way systems really shouldn't come into play unless you are dealing with a much higher budget IMO. Even then, some of the best sounding systems in the world are still just 2-3 way, so SIMPLIFY!

If I had known the whole design goals of the project, I would have suggested a FAR different allocation of recourses. Had I known you were planning a stereo pair build AND a sub build, I would have suggested that you build a stereo pair of powered subs then smaller 2-way bookshelves with good drivers sitting on top of them.

I'll try to make some suggestions on driver/crossover builds but keep in mind that I probably fall in here on the forums at about a B- as far as the quality of information available.

Eric

[Ninesvnsicks]

Originally Posted by mdocod

I'm trying to figure out why your mains need 10" drivers and a 3-way design if you are already planning on building that 15" sub (making a 4 way system)... You don't generally want to produce your bass both on your mains and at the sub, you want to cross them over. A pair of 10" is very overkill for a single 15" sub as far as mating is concerned in a properly crossed over configuration. The single 15" sub will never be able to "keep up" with a pair of 10s being used as mid-bass units. I guess, the point is, the mains will never be fully utilized with the sub as the limitation here.

I would suggest a smaller build for the mains with either 2 x 5-7" drivers or a single 8" driver per side. You'll be able to focus more on quality crossover components, quality drivers, and impedance correction for the crossover to function right.

4-way systems really shouldn't come into play unless you are dealing with a much higher budget IMO. Even then, some of the best sounding systems in the world are still just 2-3 way, so SIMPLIFY!

If I had known the whole design goals of the project, I would have suggested a FAR different allocation of recourses. Had I known you were planning a stereo pair build AND a sub build, I would have suggested that you build a stereo pair of powered subs then smaller 2-way bookshelves with good drivers sitting on top of them.

I'll try to make some suggestions on driver/crossover builds but keep in mind that I probably fall in here on the forums at about a B- as far as the quality of information available.

Eric

Subs are omnidirectional I only need one my dad does have a couple of boxes with mids and highs but missing the 8" woofers I could just get a couple of replacement woofers for those. Yea we are building my dad the 15" active sub that he wanted for christmas. Right now he has a couple of huge boxes with 2 10" woofers in each and the mids and highs are in the 8" boxes on top of them but they are missing woofers and the woofers he has are old and have been in the basement so we were planning on building a couple of new speakers to go with the active subwoofer that handled about 150wrms a piece. He still has to save up for the speakers so we have time to decide what to do for them. Whatever would sound best with the 15" active sub. He definitely wants a big sound tho.

My uncle in florida has (4) 18" JBL's and a 12" sub and we listened to that the last time we were there but he has a few McIntosh amps running them so they sound amazing. I've been into audio ever since but this is my first attempt at a nice custom home audio system.

[Francec]

So what impedance would I be getting from the crossover going to the amp? I would like it to be 4 ohms since the amp is 150wrms @ 4ohm.

Do you seriously think that you are going to pump 150W into each speaker? I suggest you do some research on what power you really will need AND use.
You also seem very impressed with brand names. This is a DIY forum and members are, generally, more interested in performance than a name, also in how to achieve performance and measure it.

For $300 for a stereo pair, I wouldn't set my sights too high. As has been pointed out several times, trying to cobble together a system with ad hoc parts and an off-the-shelf crossover is a recipe for disaster. It MAY work but the odds are severely against it.

Several members have given sensible suggestions about getting the best return for a first project. If you choose to make your own mistakes, at least they will be your mistakes and nobody else's, but you won't end up with a decent system.

Also, asking for advice and then, essentially, spurning that advice leaves an unpleasant taste in those posters mouths.

Frank

[mdocod]

Now that I have been through the sub build aspect of this project, and combining that with the "what might be available" stuff from this thread, I am very torn up. I don't know enough details to make a proper suggestion, and feel that a lot of my prior suggestions are a waste for this application (in the sub thread). I'm having a hard time fully understanding the scenario, however, it sounds like you already had a pair of boxes that would take a pair of 10" drivers. I'm trying to figure out why you felt the need to build a single 15" sub at all... for the type of listening you described, a pair of 10" drivers would be every bit as good if not better than a single 15" for the bottom end. The trick would be to use an active crossover and separate amp for those 10" units, then just build a nice pair of 2-way units to sit on top of those.

Idduno.. more details needed.. how's your return policy look?

[AllenB]

@Ninesvnsicks, your idea of using 10" drivers for a more enjoyable bass may have some merit, but maybe not for the reasons you suspect. One of the more significant aspects of doing it that way will be the width of the baffle. I suspect this is one of the things that make the Tarkus, which Sreten mentions, what it is. Going off that page, it also seems to be slightly subdued over the tweeters range in a good way and the response, I assume, suggests it will give reasonable weight to the performers like you seem to be wanting.

On the other hand, powerful bass is not about power (well it is but it's more about how the various frequencies tie together and blend with your room). Besides, the difference between an amp working into 4 ohms against 8 ohms can be no better than 3dB, a doubling of power. When it comes down to it in this way, 3dB is relatively insignificant.

@mdocod, I'd like to offer another side in that larger mains can work well with subs, and not crossing but overlapping them, as long as they are positioned carefully can bring about excellent bass.

[Ninesvnsicks]

Originally Posted by Francec

Do you seriously think that you are going to pump 150W into each speaker? I suggest you do some research on what power you really will need AND use.
You also seem very impressed with brand names. This is a DIY forum and members are, generally, more interested in performance than a name, also in how to achieve performance and measure it.

For $300 for a stereo pair, I wouldn't set my sights too high. As has been pointed out several times, trying to cobble together a system with ad hoc parts and an off-the-shelf crossover is a recipe for disaster. It MAY work but the odds are severely against it.

Several members have given sensible suggestions about getting the best return for a first project. If you choose to make your own mistakes, at least they will be your mistakes and nobody else's, but you won't end up with a decent system.

Also, asking for advice and then, essentially, spurning that advice leaves an unpleasant taste in those posters mouths.

Frank

No i don't think i'm going to pump 150 into each speaker I think it's going to be total that is why I want 150 and not 100. I don't know why you think I'm obsessed with brand names I haven't said anything to indicate that I want performance and good sound that is all I care about.

[Ninesvnsicks]

Originally Posted by mdocod

Now that I have been through the sub build aspect of this project, and combining that with the "what might be available" stuff from this thread, I am very torn up. I don't know enough details to make a proper suggestion, and feel that a lot of my prior suggestions are a waste for this application (in the sub thread). I'm having a hard time fully understanding the scenario, however, it sounds like you already had a pair of boxes that would take a pair of 10" drivers. I'm trying to figure out why you felt the need to build a single 15" sub at all... for the type of listening you described, a pair of 10" drivers would be every bit as good if not better than a single 15" for the bottom end. The trick would be to use an active crossover and separate amp for those 10" units, then just build a nice pair of 2-way units to sit on top of those.

Idduno.. more details needed.. how's your return policy look?

The 10's my dad has and the boxes are rotting and are no good anymore so it's time for new stuff. He wanted the 15" sub I think because it moves a lot of air and hits low. I just went with what he asked for. The sub amp has a crossover on it that will cut out the highs so that should help. I'm down for whatever you think would sound good with the sub I have mentioned that multiple small sized woofers might be better he just said he wanted 2 10's so I was again just going with what he asked for. By 2 way do you mean mid range and tweeters?

[Ninesvnsicks]

Originally Posted by AllenB

@Ninesvnsicks, your idea of using 10" drivers for a more enjoyable bass may have some merit, but maybe not for the reasons you suspect. One of the more significant aspects of doing it that way will be the width of the baffle. I suspect this is one of the things that make the Tarkus, which Sreten mentions, what it is. Going off that page, it also seems to be slightly subdued over the tweeters range in a good way and the response, I assume, suggests it will give reasonable weight to the performers like you seem to be wanting.

On the other hand, powerful bass is not about power (well it is but it's more about how the various frequencies tie together and blend with your room). Besides, the difference between an amp working into 4 ohms against 8 ohms can be no better than 3dB, a doubling of power. When it comes down to it in this way, 3dB is relatively insignificant.

@mdocod, I'd like to offer another side in that larger mains can work well with subs, and not crossing but overlapping them, as long as they are positioned carefully can bring about excellent bass.

That was pretty much the plan when I started this thread, Yes it will have a single 15" active sub and I haven't made the box for it yet or decided on what other speakers to use so whatever would sound best that is what I am looking for.

[Inductor]

Originally Posted by Ninesvnsicks

Hello Everyone,

I am helping my dad design a couple of 3 ways speakers...

Are you helping your dad, or is he helping you?

Very good advise was given by all members with a lot of experience and know-how. That was maybe when Eric said a 2-Way was a viable option, but not perhaps what he/his father had in view. Someone has to decide and take command. Op is a little restricted financially and he is now completely lost and very confused. NPI

Love the Tarkus (sreten) and the SB's (adason) thought.
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/tarkus
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...idrange-3-way/
And the Tarkus woodworking/finish Stickley style.
http://www.homesteadfinishingproduct..._rev6-2010.pdf