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Old 9th December 2011, 04:25 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Playing as loud as I care to the peaks hit 6V, max. That's 4.5 watts, peak.
Average power is 1/8 watt for 85dB at the listening seat.
I'm curious as to what voltage would be required to hit 100 dB at 30 Hz at your listening seat, measuring your modified A7/5's fundamental, not harmonics.
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Old 9th December 2011, 05:13 PM   #42
GuidoR is offline GuidoR  Italy
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This F5 with 2SK2013/2SJ313 is my - very personal - version of Altec VOTT.
I like the fast (very light cone) woofer, the only issue is the limited maximum admitted power. However, with a good (well-damped) class-A (Pass' F4, F5 or alike) the lack of bass is negligible, and the pleasure maximum.
And yes, the horn is all but well damped, (if striked it rings like a bell), but the sound is sweet.
If I would build today a similar system, I'll be curious to try these drivers B&C SPEAKERS (in fact, I had the opportunity to listen to them in a commercial product, and they are really amazing).
Anyway, I'm very happy to listen to my little Altec babies (that are as old as me )

Guido
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Old 9th December 2011, 08:03 PM   #43
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Originally Posted by weltersys View Post
I'm curious as to what voltage would be required to hit 100 dB at 30 Hz at your listening seat, measuring your modified A7/5's fundamental, not harmonics.
Probably a lot, as they roll of higher than that.
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Old 9th December 2011, 08:41 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by weltersys
I'm curious as to what voltage would be required to hit 100 dB at 30 Hz at your listening seat, measuring your modified A7/5's fundamental, not harmonics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Probably a lot, as they roll of higher than that.
Yeah, looking at Tom's before and after graphs, looks like the stock A7 rolls off around 120 Hz, and the "after" rolls off from 60 Hz.

Such a huge cabinet for so little low frequency.
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Old 10th December 2011, 12:08 AM   #45
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Yeah, it's a crazy big box not to go down lower. Tom's graph looks about like what I got with the original ports. After some work there and I'm down to the mid 40s. I "think" there's another ~10Hz to squeeze out if the ports are right. More work to do.

The trade off for me is the naturalness of the sound. It's a box that does not sound like a box - it sounds like real acoustic instruments. And that's what I like.
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Old 10th December 2011, 12:21 AM   #46
ke4mcl is offline ke4mcl  United States
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i run altec 9864 cabinets in my livingroom. they are biamped. i use a dbx 2 way electronic crossover and drive the cabinets with Mc tube amps. i would call these a coaxial version of the VOTT idea.

i love them. yes, they are not the most accurate. they also dont come alive until played loud. the cool thing is loud comes easily. 20wpc and you are having a party. when i first brought them home i took a bare ended headphone cable and used a single AA battery driven minidisc player to drive the speakers loud enough to hear the music in a room. the size of the cabinets is part of the efficiency.

AFAIC for vocals, brass, and guitar nothing beats horns.

info on these speakers can be found here..
http://www.altecpro.com/pdfs/vintage...r%20System.pdf
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Old 10th December 2011, 06:35 AM   #47
GuidoR is offline GuidoR  Italy
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it sounds like real acoustic instruments. And that's what I like.
I totally agree, it's the magic of Altecs
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Old 10th December 2011, 11:04 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by weltersys View Post

Yeah, looking at Tom's before and after graphs, looks like the stock A7 rolls off around 120 Hz, and the "after" rolls off from 60 Hz.

Such a huge cabinet for so little low frequency.
I don't have the room for these kinds of systems but I can certainly see the appeal.

I'm involved in professional theater design and install these days. The A7s and such that you guys like are just the cinema systems of a particular era. Pull out the articles by Shearer or Hilliard going back to the 30s and read the history. It is facinating and highlights where real loudspeaker science had its orrigins.

The modern trend has been that big power is cheap so horn loaded LF is just not used any more. A pair of 15s in a large cabinet will give you much wider bandwidth and smoother response. The upper bass efficiency kick and higher directivity of a short horn doesn't buy much in a domestic environment.

Don Keele shows the comparison between folded bass horns of reasonable size (a W bin) and 2 or 4 15" woofers.

http://www.xlrtechs.com/dbkeele.com/...%20vs%20DR.pdf

What I typically install in a mid size theater would be from the JBL 4675 family.

JBL :: Product
http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/suppor...pe=3&docid=634

Drivers are smooth and the directivity is very even so a little bit of EQ gives great response and coverage over the seating area.

My advice: a pair of 15s in a good vented box and then find your favorite horn and driver. Electronic crossover and good EQ and you are set.

David
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Old 10th December 2011, 11:28 AM   #49
Helmuth is offline Helmuth  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by speaker dave View Post

The modern trend has been that big power is cheap so horn loaded LF is just not used any more. A pair of 15s in a large cabinet will give you much wider bandwidth and smoother response. The upper bass efficiency kick and higher directivity of a short horn doesn't buy much in a domestic environment.

David
A horn system does have it impuls behavior and directivity that a isn't the same a BR or Onken.

Here the modern BR-layout idea for passive approach. Acive would be compact closedbox low with enough power to get the same spl and dsp technology to correct low response down to 20Hz.
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Last edited by Helmuth; 10th December 2011 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 10th December 2011, 01:04 PM   #50
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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The A7s and such that you guys like are just the cinema systems of a particular era.
Yep. The A7 was Altec's small speaker for small cinemas. Sure were a lot installed. At an audio show I met a guy who had pulled more than 20 of them out of an old multi-pex in Arizona. He sold them off slowly and paid of his house.

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What I typically install in a mid size theater would be from the JBL 4675 family.
Have you worked with the new 3000 and 4000 series? The ones wit the horn loaded 6" mid? (3730, 3731) I'm curious about those.
I do like twin 15 cabs a lot. Thought about building one, as I have 4x Altec 416-8A.
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