most people who use subwoofer in HT are idiots that dont know how to use a sub properly. my system as bass enough but i still like to use a sub for better control of the low end and there´s no " booming " sound , i only listen to music no movies.
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Martin,
IT'S TOTALLY WRONG!!!
and here is a video to prove it.
Grande Utopia EM from Focal - YouTube!
(Note: If the quality of the sound of this video is good is because you have good speakers at home and don't need a sub or new speakers).
Attachments
Yes, most people set the bass far too loud (like so many Cinema's) and the rear channels, and often the centre channel too.
Even modest size satellite systems can sound pretty good for Home Cinema. Although even for a small room I would say 4 inch drivers are the minimum for good sounding sat's.
I agree Rob.
i have 2 12" jbl subs and my setup is 4 x 3 way classic , 8" visaton gf200 4" scanspeak 10F/8424G00 and Bohlender-Graebener NEO3 PDR
since my living room is small i cant have bigger than 8" in one of the sets , the other set i´m thinking of building a nex box for a 10" , i dont need anything bigger. Still the subs give me the freedom to shape the low end even had a little "warm" to bass.
Still i only use 20% maybe less of the subs power
i have 2 12" jbl subs and my setup is 4 x 3 way classic , 8" visaton gf200 4" scanspeak 10F/8424G00 and Bohlender-Graebener NEO3 PDR
since my living room is small i cant have bigger than 8" in one of the sets , the other set i´m thinking of building a nex box for a 10" , i dont need anything bigger. Still the subs give me the freedom to shape the low end even had a little "warm" to bass.
Still i only use 20% maybe less of the subs power
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Martin,
IT'S TOTALLY WRONG!!!
and here is a video to prove it.
Grande Utopia EM from Focal - YouTube!
(Note: If the quality of the sound of this video is good is because you have good speakers at home and don't need a sub or new speakers).
this is why focal drivers are so expensive
without wanting to steal the thread , anyone knows what material they use for these woofer cones ?
http://www.rumoh.nl/en/focal/3251-focal-8w5456b.html
http://www.rumoh.nl/en/focal/3250-focal-7v4255.html
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I am very sad to read that audiophiles still frown on multichannel 5.1 or 7.1 systems. Framing a 5.1 or 7.1 system as just for hometheater is just plain wrong. Also saying that you have to lower your desire for quality when purchasing a multichannel system is also wrong.
For those of you who look down on multichannel, would you consider a 7.1 system built around Dunlavy SC-V's, Dunlavy TSW-VI subwoofers, and Bryston 28B monoblocks a trade downward in musical quality and accuracy?
For those of you who look down on multichannel, would you consider a 7.1 system built around Dunlavy SC-V's, Dunlavy TSW-VI subwoofers, and Bryston 28B monoblocks a trade downward in musical quality and accuracy?
That depends on how many microchips and processors and fake manipulation are between the recording and the speakers.
Flamewar commences now!
/popcorn
Framing a 5.1 system as only good for something that has been mixed for 5.1 is just plain right. And since very little music has been mixed that way its a waste of money to set up 5.1 for stereo mixes. Its like using two speakers for a mono recording. (the phase issues (comb filtering) out way any advantages).
Of course it is possible to put together a very good multichannel system. It will cost much more than a good stereo system. 5 or 7 speakers instead of 2, amps, etc. If you are on a budget budget/7 will usually get you a lot less fidelity than budget/2.
For instance 28Bs are something like $8k each (my whole system cost less than the HST on 1 of these), 2 x 8 = $16k. 7 x 8 = $56k. Enuff delta to buy a nice car (to get you to work to pay for it all).
dave
Manipulation in the studio is the artists problem.
I don't care if an artist uses fake paint to paint with, but I'm not going to use my own fake paint on this end to change the fake to my own brand of fake.
Surround sound for music has far too many variables to be a serious contender for high quality reproduction for the masses. Because of this the recordings do not get made in any serious numbers. Hell even decent stereo presents enough of a problem in many households.
Even so you can have an excellent system for surround sound that performs superbly for music too. Of course the main front stereo speakers need to be high quality, high fidelity models.
Done well it will cost more than a two channel system. If you are not too cost/budget restrained there is no need for the system to be a Jack of all trades.
Even if it is two seperate systems they can be used together. These days some Stereo purist amp's/Preamp's, CD/Preamp's even have Home Theatre Bypass to allow the front channels to be handled by the stereo system.
Few people go for seven channel, indeed few films support it.
Even so you can have an excellent system for surround sound that performs superbly for music too. Of course the main front stereo speakers need to be high quality, high fidelity models.
Done well it will cost more than a two channel system. If you are not too cost/budget restrained there is no need for the system to be a Jack of all trades.
Even if it is two seperate systems they can be used together. These days some Stereo purist amp's/Preamp's, CD/Preamp's even have Home Theatre Bypass to allow the front channels to be handled by the stereo system.
Few people go for seven channel, indeed few films support it.
I'm glad to see that there's options out there, both in DIY and in the consumer market. It's also good to read that I'm not the only one thinking some companies has gone in a direction I don't endorse...
For those who wonder; I listen mainly to hard-rock / metal. Sometimes dance and techno, depending on who'S visiting My girlfriend is more into soft rock. No classical music here. This doesn't mean I only care about sound pressure... Quality is a top priority, lack of bass is bad reproduction to me, believe me between my source and my ears I keep a minimal amound of high-quality components: Apple Lossless from my own CD rips -> iD100 dock -> Beresford DAC with usual DAC chip mod (also used as preamp) -> HX amplifier.
I carefully read all posts and I'm still convinced I want to avoid subs.
The Focal that are mentionned are a bit on the expensive side I want to stay below the $1K barrier per side for already made products and below $500 per side for parts in case of a DIY project. I have the skills to build a loudspeaker as I successfully made some furniture already. I may lack some knowledge on the sound behavior in an enclosure and in a room, so the book from Floyd Toole that's suggested is already in my Santa's wishlist.
Some mentionned that this or that speaker is not efficient, is a hard load, etc. This is a non-issue for me, I got the amp.
Thank you for posting, I keep on reading.
Martin.
For those who wonder; I listen mainly to hard-rock / metal. Sometimes dance and techno, depending on who'S visiting
My girlfriend is more into soft rock. No classical music here. This doesn't mean I only care about sound pressure... Quality is a top priority, lack of bass is bad reproduction to me, believe me between my source and my ears I keep a minimal amound of high-quality components: Apple Lossless from my own CD rips -> iD100 dock -> Beresford DAC with usual DAC chip mod (also used as preamp) -> HX amplifier.I carefully read all posts and I'm still convinced I want to avoid subs.
The Focal that are mentionned are a bit on the expensive side
I want to stay below the $1K barrier per side for already made products and below $500 per side for parts in case of a DIY project. I have the skills to build a loudspeaker as I successfully made some furniture already. I may lack some knowledge on the sound behavior in an enclosure and in a room, so the book from Floyd Toole that's suggested is already in my Santa's wishlist. Some mentionned that this or that speaker is not efficient, is a hard load, etc. This is a non-issue for me, I got the amp.
Thank you for posting, I keep on reading.
Martin.
No no, it's not my intention to say that I've achieved that at all, it's just my intention to say that I won't add anything on purpose. It's the pursuit of transparency that I enjoy and I think manipulating source material runs counter to what I personally find to be the most enjoyable aspect of this hobby.
same with me , still i believe my subs improve what i get from my system.
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That is your choice , you might even not like them but you at least know how to use them.
There´s nothing wrong with using subs , only with idiots that dont understand how to use them
http://h2000.hangszoro.net/speaker/adat/421.pdf
thisone i did see in 3 way setup, actualy it has quite good bass extension.
and did produce more than sufficient bass, in this case the subwoofer would only have benefit of freedom of placement.
at 93 dBL sensitivity i would say this driver is quite a good choice for a good 3 way speaker, specialy for its price. (30 euro cca... lol)
there are a number of drivers that are able to produce a good bass in 3 way setup.
the no sub = no bass is simply not true.
subs have a small advantage, in the freedom of placement.
Sure, vibration is not transfered to mids, and tweeters.
allso something to consider.
as for the small bass boxes used as subs..
nope, a big floorstander will be te better choice mostly.
Actualy i think the room and listening position will be what reveals if a sub is needed, or a big floorstander will be just as good.
There are situations where the big floorstanders have a huge huge advantage.
say.. pair of big 3-way floorstanders with 10-12" bass eatch would be my choice against a pai of 2 ways with 6.5" midbass and a sub with a single 10-12" driver.
While i know that in many occasions one would be better than the other.
(infact atm. i do have a pair 6.5" 2 ways and a sub. ironic ha? )
I would say it can be done both ways, depends on the user what he/she wishes to do.
thisone i did see in 3 way setup, actualy it has quite good bass extension.
and did produce more than sufficient bass, in this case the subwoofer would only have benefit of freedom of placement.
at 93 dBL sensitivity i would say this driver is quite a good choice for a good 3 way speaker, specialy for its price. (30 euro cca... lol)
there are a number of drivers that are able to produce a good bass in 3 way setup.
the no sub = no bass is simply not true.
subs have a small advantage, in the freedom of placement.
Sure, vibration is not transfered to mids, and tweeters.
allso something to consider.
as for the small bass boxes used as subs..
nope, a big floorstander will be te better choice mostly.
Actualy i think the room and listening position will be what reveals if a sub is needed, or a big floorstander will be just as good.
There are situations where the big floorstanders have a huge huge advantage.
say.. pair of big 3-way floorstanders with 10-12" bass eatch would be my choice against a pai of 2 ways with 6.5" midbass and a sub with a single 10-12" driver.
While i know that in many occasions one would be better than the other.
(infact atm. i do have a pair 6.5" 2 ways and a sub. ironic ha? )
I would say it can be done both ways, depends on the user what he/she wishes to do.
....I carefully read all posts and I'm still convinced I want to avoid subs..... I may lack some knowledge on the sound behavior in an enclosure and in a room, so the book from Floyd Toole that's suggested is already in my Santa's wishlist.
When you read Toole you might change your mind.
The first reply you got to your opening post from RockLeeEV pretty much nailed it.
Multiple subs placed on the floor/wall intersections and equalised will give you THE BEST bass. For one channel, two channels, or any number of channels.
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