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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 6th December 2011, 11:30 AM   #11
DrDyna is online now DrDyna  United States
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I believe you can get really great bass from single floor standers if they're done properly, but IMO it's easier to do with separate subs just because it seems easier to tune from a positioning standpoint. Subs will tend to sound their best in different places from where your main speakers sound best, so having them in different cabinets offers more placement flexibility.

The 1 note bass and bright hash of treble you hear when you walk into a best buy is a product of cheap design pandering to the masses. The average consumer seems less interested in producing all 5 strings of an electric bass smoothly and more interested in "amg, explosunz!" I think you can build something much, much better, regardless of whether it's a 4 way with subwoofers built in, or a 2/3 way with separate subs.
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Old 6th December 2011, 12:27 PM   #12
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Check out this VIFA NE265W. Excellent for music. Can be in a separate "sub" box or integrated into a 3-way.

Doesn't take up much space. Box is 25 Liters, bass reflex. F3 is 40Hz.
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Old 6th December 2011, 12:51 PM   #13
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If you are interested in building your own I will share plans for a project I had planed before I became unable to build.
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Old 6th December 2011, 01:31 PM   #14
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>>> they're so proud to pollute my ears with their $1500 5.1 system playing as loud as possible...

LOL, i know plenty of those people. I was in the Sony store by me recently and they are touting very slim speakers hanging from the wall along with a sub. I plucked one from the wall (it was hanging from one screw) and waved it around like a Harry Potter wand before putting it back onto the screw head. They do make sound. But they do not make satisfying sound.

Back in the 70s and 80s I don't remember seeing too many sat/sub systems. Infinity made something interesting called the Infintesimal (i think). But large floorstanders from AR, ADS, Klipsch, Infinity, Polk, Genesis, JBL, Ohm, and many others (what a great time for audiophiles!) incorporated large woofers for satisfying bass. Remember the old AR 9 with two side 12" woofers? And I remember when large subwoofers (Velodyne) were used to add the lowest octaves of bass to what would already be considered 'full range' speakers.

If you don't like what's available in stores you can consider DIY. If so inclined, you will be building all sorts of speaker projects (some more satisfying than others) for years like many on this forum. Then you can serve up your bass any way you like
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Old 6th December 2011, 01:37 PM   #15
adason is offline adason  United States
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I highly recommend this kit from madisound, no need for sub
Zaph|Audio SB12.3 ~ SB Acoustics 12", Dual Midrange, 3-Way: Madisound Speaker Store
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Old 6th December 2011, 01:41 PM   #16
adason is offline adason  United States
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and yes, the title of this thread is wrong, there are many great sounding multi-way speakers which needs no sub and yet have great bass
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Old 6th December 2011, 02:23 PM   #17
DrDyna is online now DrDyna  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adason View Post
I highly recommend this kit from madisound, no need for sub
Zaph|Audio SB12.3 ~ SB Acoustics 12", Dual Midrange, 3-Way: Madisound Speaker Store
<opinion warning>
Those are probably a great speaker, but with an f3 of 37 cycles, I'm not sure "no need" is what I'd say on the subwoofer issue, but that's just me.
</opinion warning>

I guess it all depends on what type of music you like to listen to, for fear of starting another "how low is low enough" debate.
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Old 6th December 2011, 02:29 PM   #18
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Certainly DIY is worth pursuing if you want to buid your own. However there are lots of manufacturers that supply full size speakers for surround sound.



If you want affordable and big the Kef Q900's are pretty decent. lots of bang for buck, 8 inch bass and bass/mid drivers, 1.5 inch tweeters. Decent motor systems.
Surprisingly these sound quite fleet footed in the right room, despite using passive radiators. A nicely tuned speaker, Kef have managed to make metal cones and 1st order crossovers to play nice too (using their own cone resonance damping technique), impressive for the money.
Also you can get a centre speaker in the same range, theQ600c. That speaker is big enough to hold several sets of sat speakers in that one cab alone.

Q900 f3 at 32hz.
http://www.kef.com/html/gb/showroom/...900/index.html
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Old 6th December 2011, 02:43 PM   #19
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canonnica View Post
No sub = no bass... true?Please tell me that's totally wrong...
you are correct. That phrase is wrong.
All speakers reproduce bass frequencies. It's a matter of how far down those frequencies have rolled off relative to the rest of the frequency range.

But if you want high levels of low frequency information to come out matching similarly high levels of mid frequency and high frequency information then you need big speakers.
Big speakers cost lot's of money.
There is a limited market for big expensive speakers. That makes them even more expensive.

The buyer (us, you and me) determines what becomes available to them/ourselves. If we don't buy the big expensive speakers then fewer manufacturers will bother to design and retail them.

If you have the space and the budget then bass from floor standers is available.
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Old 6th December 2011, 02:45 PM   #20
wrankin is offline wrankin  United States
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I think that some of the earliest sub/sat systems that I remember clearly were from ACI and Cambridge. (there were obviously others, but these I remember better). These were quite decent compared to other systems at the time.

With the advent of HT and mass marketing of N.1 (N=5,6,7,etc...) systems, there is clearly a lot of crap out there (as pointed out earlier). Unfortunately the market has driven manufactures away from designing nice integrated stereo systems in favor of systems that support however many channels are currently in fashion. And the more channels you have, the smaller you want all those sats to be, lest you end up without any space to place them.

A couple points to the original poster:

a) realize that in general what constitutes a subwoofer today would have been called a woofer back in the 70's and 80's. To some extent, this is now an over-used marketing term although it does have some historical/technical definition wrt. theater and pro-audio.

b) there are systems out there that use integrated woofers and produce good response down to what some people would consider the sub-woofer range (eg. <30Hz). There are just a lot fewer of them than there used to be.

c) although we may not remember it that clearly, there were as many crappy sounding full-range systems back in the 70s and 80s as there are crappy HT systems today. Integrated woofers are no guaranty of quality sound.

d) there are some some quite nice sounding HT systems out there. In general you will not see them being pushed by your typical sales associate down at Best Buy. They also need to be set up correctly at the listening end - sub placement, crossover frequency and volume levels all need to be tweaked once you get them in the house.


Good luck,

-bill
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