Question about tweeter polarity 2nd order crossover

[reveonss]

I would like to ask which is the polarity to wire a tweeter to the crossover ?
The crossovers are 2nd order, Butterworth, with the addition of a resistor 1 ohm in series with high-pass crossover input +.
I replace the tweeters and i am not sure for the right tweeter polarity because the sound differences are "audible".
If anyone knows, the speakers are Celestion, Impact series.
The new tweeters are SEAS T25CF001.

[picowallspeaker]

hello , you haven't specified if it's a 2 - way or 3 way loudspeaker system .
Usually , in 2 way the tweeter is mounted 'out of phase ' , for a 2nd order highpass , because at crossover frequencies the signals would sum , and being 2nd order filters 180 ° phase shifting , putting the tw reversed would bring the emissions to optimum . Different for a 3 way system , where often the midrange is reverse -phased , and the tweeter 'normal' .

[reveonss]

Thanks for your ansuer.
Sorry for the omission, the speakers ways are 2, bass reflex and the crossover point 3000 Khz.
I think is not so easy to end up in correct or reverse tweeter polarity.
With tweeter reverse polarity, sound is soften but the program is not so real.
Image focus is better.
With the other way, (right polarity), sound is so real, the image lighter, but i listen spikes in high frequences.

[sreten]

Hi,

Driver polarity depends on the final acoustic roll-offs of the drivers,
not the electrical order of the filters, so it depends on design.

FWIW those Seas tweeters seem far too expensive for the application,
and the extended low response may be mucking up the phase tracking.

rgds, sreten.

[oiphy]

I would try both ways.... in my projects there is no right or wrong way untill its been listen to.....

[reveonss]

Dear friends...
I think that i must be more specific about this constraction.
After the tweeters, I will also change the woofers with something better, maybe SEAS or SCANSPEAK and finally I will make new boxes with analog litters.
Crossovers are adjusted with other materials (coils, capacitors) in every speaker driver change and I will probably make a new crossover using measurement software.
I totally agree with previous statement that, "driver polarity depends on the final acoustic roll-offs" and this should be the good result, to be able to listen well and not only have right measurements.
In this case, I've had better results when the tweeter's polarity was inverted.

[phivates]

I have to say that I prefer the first order irregularities and power handling compromises to the second order flip of high frequency overtones for the sake of flat frequency response around crossover. For me the first sounds realistic though distorted; not "real" whereas the second is just not engaging therefore not "real" either. An old conversation but also a line in the sand.

[picowallspeaker]

Originally Posted by phivates

For me the first sounds realistic though distorted;

Ferrofluid would stop those uncontrolled motions

[phivates]

I'm using a SEAS ferrofluid tweeter; by distorted I acknowledge my fr in not ruler flat. I prefer the depth illusion my system generates as well as a solidly centered image. And I don't require additional hearing loss. I'm a music lover not a meter reader.

[sreten]

Originally Posted by phivates

I have to say that I prefer the first order irregularities and power handling
compromises to the second order flip of high frequency overtones for the
sake of flat frequency response around crossover. For me the first sounds
realistic though distorted; not "real" whereas the second is just not engaging
therefore not "real" either. An old conversation but also a line in the sand.

Hi,

However in reality all tweeters have an acoustic 2nd order roll-off if they
are used to go fairly low. 1st order electrical gives you some form of 3rd
order alignment whilst 2nd order electrical gives some form of 4th order.

It may be a line in the sand, but a fairly arbitrary one because it depends
on the tweeter in case, and how and where your crossing over to midrange.

Zaphs builds are interestingly detailed in the above respects.
Zaph|Audio
This has 1st order electrical, but the response is 2nd order L/R acoustic.

The tweeter is only quasi 2nd order acoustic, it eventually rolls off
3rd order acoustic as it has to with the single series component.

The most ubiquitous type tweeter used with a single cap is this :
Audax TW010F1 10 mm Polymer Dome Tweeter: Madisound Speaker Store
Knock-offs abound in car audio and cheap speakers with only a cap.
Due to the high 3KHz Fs, one cap is basically 3rd order at around 3KHz.

Arranging a speaker to have genuine 1st order acoustic c/o slopes
is horrendously difficult to do in some parts of the frequency range.

rgds, sreten.