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Old 4th December 2011, 05:44 AM   #1
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Default Help which 10" woofer I chose out of these 3 SB or Alcone Or Visaton ???

Hello

I would like to ask any opinion from those people who used or heard these SB woofer in 3 way system or as a sub-woofer.
I want to use it in a 3 way system in a 75L BR enclosure.
AudioNL store
Another option I think about the Alcone AC 10 HE
Alcone AC 10 HE
These is the Visaton
Visaton - Lautsprecher und Zubehör, Loudspeakers and Accessories
Visaton produce some of my favorite drivers all do I never heard these driver
Any pro and contra welcome before I buy.
Thank you very much

Greetings Gabor

Last edited by gaborbela; 4th December 2011 at 06:14 AM.
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Old 4th December 2011, 06:39 AM   #2
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Or VOLT B250.8 (???)

Last edited by Inductor; 4th December 2011 at 06:43 AM. Reason: what goes around comes around...
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Old 4th December 2011, 01:34 PM   #3
bjorno is offline bjorno  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaborbela View Post
Hello

I would like to ask any opinion from those people who used or heard these SB woofer in 3 way system or as a sub-woofer.
I want to use it in a 3 way system in a 75L BR enclosure.
AudioNL store
Another option I think about the Alcone AC 10 HE
Alcone AC 10 HE
These is the Visaton
Visaton - Lautsprecher und Zubehör, Loudspeakers and Accessories
Visaton produce some of my favorite drivers all do I never heard these driver
Any pro and contra welcome before I buy.
Thank you very much

Greetings Gabor
Hi Gabor,

I would pick the Visaton driver at first hand for mains but not in a ported box as this driver is excellent in a closed box when Qtc=~0.5-0.6 and use the same driver in real subs (2 or more) where the extension below ~50 Hz can be fully be exploited when placed near walls/corners:
Pictures of modeled sub's :

b
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TIW-250-XS-8 OHM.JPG (526.7 KB, 443 views)
File Type: jpg SB29NRX75-6.JPG (519.6 KB, 427 views)
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Old 4th December 2011, 07:16 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjorno View Post
Hi Gabor,

I would pick the Visaton driver at first hand for mains but not in a ported box as this driver is excellent in a closed box when Qtc=~0.5-0.6 and use the same driver in real subs (2 or more) where the extension below ~50 Hz can be fully be exploited when placed near walls/corners:
Pictures of modeled sub's :

b
Hi,
bjorno, if I was you I would divide that figure of the Visaton "Excursion limit +/−14 mm" by 2 so that I would use it for the (comparison) simulations you have presented above. Usually is good to work/use T/S parameter Xmax so that it gives a good standard between different manufacturers (and we don't call them layers afterwards). I know some don't like standards... or make their own. As Î said I have some doubts about what that parameter is about. And not saying your sims are not "nice" or inacurate. Again, I would say Xmax=7 mm until somebody proves me the opposite. Thanks.
http://www.bcae1.com/speaker.htm

Last edited by Inductor; 4th December 2011 at 07:25 PM. Reason: bjorno sims
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Old 4th December 2011, 07:56 PM   #5
bjorno is offline bjorno  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inductor View Post
Hi,
bjorno, if I was you I would divide that figure of the Visaton "Excursion limit +/−14 mm" by 2 so that I would use it for the (comparison) simulations you have presented above. Usually is good to work/use T/S parameter Xmax so that it gives a good standard between different manufacturers (and we don't call them layers afterwards). I know some don't like standards... or make their own. As Î said I have some doubts about what that parameter is about. And not saying your sims are not "nice" or inacurate. Again, I would say Xmax=7 mm until somebody proves me the opposite. Thanks.
Speaker
Hi Inductor

Good point, I really did a mistake and you are quite right.

I've earlier compared this driver with one of my favorite drivers and found it is very similar in performance ( quarter-wave enclosures) :The 7" Wavecor-SW178WA01 for which I used Xmax = (16-6)2=5 mm and for the Visaton (25-8)2= 8.5 mm but for an unknown reason I forgot to do use x-max= 8.5 mm in my new simulations.

The limit 14 mm is IMO good to use for 1 Hz safe excursions when no protective low end HPF is present.

I will post a new simulation using both 8.5 mm and 5 mm as reference later this evening.

Thank you again!

b
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Old 4th December 2011, 10:49 PM   #6
bjorno is offline bjorno  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjorno View Post
...I will post a new simulation using .. 8.5 mm ..later this evening...
Done:

b
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File Type: jpg TIW-250-XS-8 OHM_rev.JPG (525.4 KB, 393 views)
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Old 7th December 2013, 01:46 PM   #7
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Hi

Long time since I started these thread
I ended up with a pair 10" Alcone AC 10HE
Alcone AC 10 HE - RumoH - Caps, coils and speakers
Also I have a pair Hi-VI research
F10 Hi-end Woofer - RumoH - Caps, coils and speakers
Next to that I have (before I purchased the 10" drivers) a pair Monacor 8"
SPH-200KE - RumoH - Caps, coils and speakers

Now after some listening test lot of headache and heart ......... etc..
I just found out the Alcone has 2 different speech on the net, huge difference between the two data.
Also someone measure the (new) Monacor and the result far from the company speech or data.
I know the shared data for the driver usually after break in but both the Alcone and Monacor has so big difference hard to believe ever meat with the orig data.

I tested all 3 driver over the 75L BR enclosure (the port is very long and not tuned)
I did several hours listening and I'm not to happy with either of them.
Rather write I'm very unhappy with the heard sound.

The Alcone sound thin, dry, but that bass I get at least is controlled (the driver not broken in yet)
The HI-VI has big fat sound, not precise, (tube like rounded bass) somehow to loud around 200Hz and up even do I used a 6.2mH coil..

I got used to it to my Visaton AL130 13cm driver (8 years I listen those driver in a 12L BR enclosure) compare to that these 10" drivers are to slow and lazy somehow.
I can't test the Monacor because that only 8" and the cut out on the box made for a 10" driver, all do I did put at the front of the hole and since to be faster than the 2 10" drivers.
I have to cut a ring from plywood for the Monacor so I can test it well that to.
The Monacor optimal 50L BR and my Enclosure 75L.
Only the HI-VI was mounted and I try to avoid to mount the Monacor or the Alcone.
In case I will decide to sell those driver (I have to just I need one pair) It will lose a lot from their value if I mount or solder them.
Right now I can't pick between the drivers (the biggest problem)
Sometimes I fill the project is just a waste of $$$$.....
Probably I would be much happier if I buy 4 pair Visaton AL130 and build a 60L line array with them, now is to late... money was spent already
I like that little Visaton that much!
I taught the Alcone will be the same (close) category than the Visaton AL series, that is far from the truth.
The HI-VI not bad but not my cup of tea.
The Monacor need further testing and my main focus to go with 10" woofer at low end.
I would love to cross the low around 250-300Hz max.
Any advise (just please do not ask to trow them out and start all over again because if I think about $$$ and the effort invested in the enclosure I start to faint)
One of my friend told these so many time
Big drivers, big speakers big problem, small drivers less problem.
Top of that these must be 3 way system and must get nice 30Hz bass or at least close to that.
Any advise more than welcome.
Pictures will come soon.
Also I will try to find the mentioned Alcone data to post here(so bad compare to the orig incredible)

Greetings Gabor
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Old 7th December 2013, 07:55 PM   #8
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I love the AL130 too! Smashing little beast.

http://www.visaton.de/en/bauvorschla...ett/index.html

I've only seen Alcone on the lautsprecher.de site, maybe you got them there? Or if not, maybe there may be useful information there?
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Last edited by mondogenerator; 7th December 2013 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 7th December 2013, 08:26 PM   #9
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Great build, I never saw that speaker until now.
Thank you for posting.
Something similar came up to my mind to and I would gladly exchange my drivers to those Visaton.
My Visaton box is 12L BR tuned to 40Hz but many people said that goes deeper because sound so nice, vivid precise.
I do love it a lot. 8 years I listen and still favorite.
I picked the Visaton over many High End driver like Scanspeak Revelator etc.
I use 18db XO because that allow fine precise tuning.
Greetings Gabor
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Old 8th December 2013, 12:28 AM   #10
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What's the sub internal volume you have for the Alcone AC 10 HE driver (net)?!
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