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Old 29th November 2011, 11:39 PM   #1
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Default Building my perfect speakers. General advise needed.

Hi guys, im looking at building a pair of floorstanders and a pair of subwoofer.

For the subs im building essentially something similar to the bk monolith + with a eminence lab 12 in a 90-100l box tuned at 20-25hz (havent finalised yet)

I ideally want a 60 hz crossover ideally, to a pair of floostanders, which will be 25cm wide at most and roughly 1 meter tall. I'm looking for driver advise to make up the remainder of the spectrum. Thinking dual 8's midbass in each tower, covering 60-800hz, 4/5inch midrange up to 6k, then a tweeter.

Want to build a really high quality system that plays louder than most hifi's. The pair of subs will be driven by a behringer ep2000.

Unsure about the floorstanders, I have a nad c370 and an arcam alpha 9. Was possibly thinking of biamping, using the nad to control the midbass drivers and the arcam to power the mid/treble. Gives me around 150w rms to 8 ohms to bass drivers a side (so 75w a driver) and 70w for mid/treble. Might just use the nad for all units.

Anyhow thanks in advance for any help, budget is 500 for midbass, midrange and treble units. If you think im heading in the wrong direction please tell me. I want the towers to at least equal the subwoofers output at 60 hz.
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Old 29th November 2011, 11:56 PM   #2
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running123 View Post
Hi guys, im looking at building a pair of floorstanders and a pair of subwoofer.

For the subs im building essentially something similar to the bk monolith + with a eminence lab 12 in a 90-100l box tuned at 20-25hz (havent finalised yet)

I ideally want a 60 hz crossover ideally, to a pair of floostanders, which will be 25cm wide at most and roughly 1 meter tall. I'm looking for driver advise to make up the remainder of the spectrum. Thinking dual 8's midbass in each tower, covering 60-800hz, 4/5inch midrange up to 6k, then a tweeter.

Want to build a really high quality system that plays louder than most hifi's. The pair of subs will be driven by a behringer ep2000.

Unsure about the floorstanders, I have a nad c370 and an arcam alpha 9. Was possibly thinking of biamping, using the nad to control the midbass drivers and the arcam to power the mid/treble. Gives me around 150w rms to 8 ohms to bass drivers a side (so 75w a driver) and 70w for mid/treble. Might just use the nad for all units.

Anyhow thanks in advance for any help, budget is 500 for midbass, midrange and treble units. If you think im heading in the wrong direction please tell me. I want the towers to at least equal the subwoofers output at 60 hz.
Hi,

Nothing much wrong with your choice of subs, though with two I'd go for
a higher c/o point because 60Hz is too low IMO for stereo subwoofers.

What I'd go for is two of these sealed c/o around 100Hz :
Zaph|Audio - ZDT3.5

drivers : http://www.europe-audio.com/Producte...ctgroep_ID=213

No way will any normal speaker equal one LAB12 at 60Hz, not going to happen,
you can arrange the excursion limits to match at that point, but very different,
and fairly pointless, there is no need to take the higher units to excursion limits.

You could stack the sealed speakers on top of each subwoofer, for a 4-way system.

rgds, sreten.
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Last edited by sreten; 30th November 2011 at 12:14 AM.
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Old 30th November 2011, 12:01 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running123 View Post

Want to build a really high quality system that plays louder than most hifi's. The pair of subs will be driven by a behringer ep2000.
For a "perfect system" which plays loud have a look at "Econowave"
- Controlled directivity
- 96db+ sensitivity
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Old 30th November 2011, 12:09 AM   #4
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running123 View Post

I ideally want a 60 hz crossover ideally, to a pair of floostanders, which will be 25cm wide at most and roughly 1 meter tall.

Thinking dual 8's midbass in each tower, covering 60-800hz, 4/5inch midrange up to 6k, then a tweeter.

.
if you want to play really loud, a 5" would need to be a very tough one

generally I do think a good 5" sounds better than almost any 6"
but at high SPL it could easily be the other way round

and you might need to choose your midwoofers very very carefully too
not all will sound very nice in midrange
could either have muddy muffled midrange, or be painfully screaming

its a real challenge

dont know about subs, and never owned one
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Old 30th November 2011, 12:13 AM   #5
pski is offline pski  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running123 View Post
Hi guys, im looking at building a pair of floorstanders and a pair of subwoofer.

For the subs im building essentially something similar to the bk monolith + with a eminence lab 12 in a 90-100l box tuned at 20-25hz (havent finalised yet)

I ideally want a 60 hz crossover ideally, to a pair of floostanders, which will be 25cm wide at most and roughly 1 meter tall. I'm looking for driver advise to make up the remainder of the spectrum. Thinking dual 8's midbass in each tower, covering 60-800hz, 4/5inch midrange up to 6k, then a tweeter.

Want to build a really high quality system that plays louder than most hifi's. The pair of subs will be driven by a behringer ep2000.

Unsure about the floorstanders, I have a nad c370 and an arcam alpha 9. Was possibly thinking of biamping, using the nad to control the midbass drivers and the arcam to power the mid/treble. Gives me around 150w rms to 8 ohms to bass drivers a side (so 75w a driver) and 70w for mid/treble. Might just use the nad for all units.

Anyhow thanks in advance for any help, budget is 500 for midbass, midrange and treble units. If you think im heading in the wrong direction please tell me. I want the towers to at least equal the subwoofers output at 60 hz.
I've just built two pairs.

1. ReDiscovery 2-way towers designed by Suman (who is very accessable.) These easily (and loudly) play well below the 60Hz on less than 50wpc. At about 600usd before MDF, they leave you something to use on a woofer enclosure. I don't understand the 60Hz comment below.

2. Zapf 2.5 towers (65 liters.) These don't need sub(s) but they cost a lot more.

Both use ScanSpeak 120mm woofers. No one who has heard these speakers can believe the performance of the 8531 drivers. My college roommate saw the construction pictures and wondered why I would spend so much effort on such "small" drivers. He went away awestruck.

P
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Old 30th November 2011, 12:15 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sreten View Post

No way will any normal speaker equal one LAB12 at 60Hz, not going to happen,
you can arrange the excursion limits to match at that point, but very different.

rgds, sreten.
I completely take the point about nothing equaling the labs at 60hz. What im trying to do is improve on my current system. The subs will be run in mono (hence the desire for 60hz).

I currently have a pair of valdus 500's which have 3x 8 inch woofers, and they played louder than my old sub (wharfedale sw 150) at 60 hz. Even with dual high quality 8's a side could a floor-stander not match the lab subs?

I'm trying to build something which plays louder at all frequencies than the wharfedale valdus 500's down to 60 hz. I want really powerful midbass. Thanks for your quick reply. If 60hz is not possible, is 80 hz?
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Old 30th November 2011, 12:34 AM   #7
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running123 View Post
I completely take the point about nothing equaling the labs at 60hz. What im trying to do is improve on my current system. The subs will be run in mono (hence the desire for 60hz).

I currently have a pair of valdus 500's which have 3x 8 inch woofers, and they played louder than my old sub (wharfedale sw 150) at 60 hz. Even with dual high quality 8's a side could a floor-stander not match the lab subs?

I'm trying to build something which plays louder at all frequencies than the wharfedale valdus 500's down to 60 hz. I want really powerful midbass. Thanks for your quick reply. If 60hz is not possible, is 80 hz?
Hi,

The LAB 12's will kick everything **** up to around 120Hz, I'm not surprised
the SW150 with its 10" driver designed to be used with a pair of the Diamonds
can't keep up with the Valdus 500's, they are designed for high upper bass SPL.

It is a mismatch, and for most an unsual one at 60Hz.

I'm going to have to duck out because I don't care about high SPL's,
except in the low bass where SPL does matter. If you want something
louder than the Valdus 500's we are talking a ball game I don't understand.

rgds, sreten.
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Last edited by sreten; 30th November 2011 at 01:00 AM.
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Old 30th November 2011, 01:23 AM   #8
18Hurts is offline 18Hurts  United States
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The Lab 12 is around 89dB at one watt so at 400 watts--around 115dB

So you want to run some 8's to equal 115dB at 150 watts from your other amp?

Two Silver Flute 8" woofers have 5mm of Xmax and are rated at 91dB at one watt--two of them would give you 94dB. They can easily handle the amp so figure at least 115dB at 150 watts for two of them. They can be tuned to 60Hz in a small .64 cu ft (18.2 liter) box so might work for you. Two of them = 36.5 liters but your box is a meter tall so plenty of space.

They are very reasonably priced at $37 US each so four of them won't kill your budget.

Silver Flute W20RC38-08, 8" Wool Cone: Madisound Speaker Store

Another option for a tall tower that won't kill your wallet is the Stentorian, it uses SIX 6" Aurasound woofers in a 2.5 way setup and a Vifa tweeter with waveguide--easily does 115 dB at 80 watts of power and don't flinch.

http://www.parts-express.com/project...aker-projects/
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Old 30th November 2011, 02:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
The Lab 12 is around 89dB at one watt so at 400 watts--around 115dB

So you want to run some 8's to equal 115dB at 150 watts from your other amp?

Two Silver Flute 8" woofers have 5mm of Xmax and are rated at 91dB at one watt--two of them would give you 94dB. They can easily handle the amp so figure at least 115dB at 150 watts for two of them. They can be tuned to 60Hz in a small .64 cu ft (18.2 liter) box so might work for you. Two of them = 36.5 liters but your box is a meter tall so plenty of space.

They are very reasonably priced at $37 US each so four of them won't kill your budget.

Silver Flute W20RC38-08, 8" Wool Cone: Madisound Speaker Store

Another option for a tall tower that won't kill your wallet is the Stentorian, it uses SIX 6" Aurasound woofers in a 2.5 way setup and a Vifa tweeter with waveguide--easily does 115 dB at 80 watts of power and don't flinch.

Speaker Projects Gallery,Speaker Design Goals, Project Materials, Enclosure Assembly, Speaker Project Photos and More, Submitted By Parts Express Customers.
seems very reasonable, just wondering what you would think of using dayton 8 inch reference woofers instead? or even something like the pd 8 inch driver? thanks for your help. Ideally I want a bit of headroom on the speakers over the sub at 60hz, I don't mind ringing the last ounce of performance out of a sub but dont like driving towers to their absolute maximum.
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Old 30th November 2011, 02:02 AM   #10
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Hmm, narrow design and higher spls..

I'd probably do something like Neo 3 PDR, Neo 10, and 3 Exodus Anarchy's in a transmission line. (..the Neo 10 and 3 I'd run open baffle.)
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