Visaton TI100 Excel or other metal cones

[juanito]

Hi just want to know a bit more of this visaton TI100 and if the kit offered with the MHT tweeter is worth. Maybe the other arias or the bijou's... Also compared to the "kind" of "big hi end" metal cones offered by seas excel. May be is going to be more "standard" for all tastes a kit based on the W15CY magnesium cone.
Just wanted to know if anybody has had the chance to listen both or any other sugestion for a 2 way bass reflex or sealed bookshelf.
Chhers

[Inductor]

Juanito, I would stay way from metal cones. That's my opinion.
Paper and Textile Dome Tweeters are the best, no issues.
If you want exotics, the ceramic dome of the VISATON KE 25 SC 8 OHM is one of the best in the world though.
As a classic mid and tweeter I have the VISATON 5" W130SC and G20SC 1" Tweeter.

[Mario Pankov]

I would double Inductor, stay away of metal cones. Hard to work with, present too many limitations in the useful range of a driver, sometimes cone breakup can still be heard, I hate their reproduction of female vocals and drums. Accutons I find even worse, no idea why they are so expensive.
Well, to your question, I have listened to both drivers, although with diferent implementations, didn`t like both. Assuming that you are looking only at these two drivers, I would take the Seas because of its better motor design and lighter cone. If you like hard domes, the KE25 is a good choice although I would personally prefer a coated fabric tweeter instead.

[crazyhub]

juanito, metal/hard drivers have to be carefully used and filtered; for exemple the TI100 should preferably be steep filtered before 1.8kHz (H3 peak); The aria mht kit has a specified cut-of frequency of 5kHz, this is way too high, I would never build this thing because despite an apparent hard work on its filter one cannot avoid ringing at 6.5kHz coming from harmonics of lower foundamentals if these foundamentals aren't cut down.
.hifisound eShop * -* VISATON ARIA MHT KOMPLETT-BAUSATZ *
Check this:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/SEAS_5I...5CY001+22TAF/G
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/W15_Neo3.htm
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/W12.htm
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/do...-Soup_copy.pdf
Be sure all of them are well engineered.

[ScottG]

There is a difference in metal cone drivers. The "stay away from", doesn't apply to all, and to those it *might* apply to - it's largely conditional on the design.

IMO both Visaton drivers are over-priced for the level of performance.. NOT that they are bad or that you should stay away from them.


As far as a premium metal cone based two-way (small bookshelf design) is concerned, the best would likely be Jim Griffin's:
http://documents.jordan-usa.com/JX92SG2siDesignPak.pdf
Jim Griffin Jordan/Aurum Cantus in a PE Box
and in a larger design:
Jordan with a Ribbon MLTL

This design was an award-winner.


You can see the Jordan driver and the Visaton measured on Zaph's website:

Zaph|Audio
Zaph|Audio

[Jim Griffin]

ScottG thanks for mentioning some of my designs. More recently I have completed designs with the several metal cone Mark Audio drivers (Alpair 6, 10, 10.2, and others).
Several of these projects have threads on this site if you search a little. My newest project is an Alpair 10.2 open baffle over an H-frame woofer.

The Mark Audio drivers evolve from the Jordan design experience (the designer Mark Fenlon previously worked for Jordan so no great surprise). Mark has significantly improved the performance of the MA drivers so they are now my favorite full range metal cone drivers. Their sound is very impressive and I highly recommend them.

Jim

[ScottG]

Originally Posted by Jim Griffin

ScottG thanks for mentioning some of my designs.

Several of these projects have threads on this site if you search a little. My newest project is an Alpair 10.2 open baffle over an H-frame woofer.

The Mark Audio drivers evolve from the Jordan design experience (the designer Mark Fenlon previously worked for Jordan so no great surprise). Mark has significantly improved the performance of the MA drivers so they are now my favorite full range metal cone drivers. Their sound is very impressive and I highly recommend them.

Jim

You're Welcome! (..and happy Thanksgiving!)


(..and for those that don't know - the Alpair 10.2 open baffle from Jim is ALSO an Award-winner. ..Though I'm sure far to large for jaunito's current requirements.)


Like the new Mark Audio drivers better? Have you done extensive measurements of them (comparable to Zaphs)? If so, please post! Also, time to get started on a re-do of the original Jordan design then.

[Helmuth]

I used the TI100 from the year they where introduced.

I used them for a backloaded horn then used them in a 3 way and as last in the fatboy project.And that one is used by a brother in law who buy them from me.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/137036-big-bandpass-fatboy.html

What can I say about the sound. It sounds very clear detailed a friend of mine who uses ESL Final 1.2 and 1.4 compared the sound coming close to the ESL.
Female voices and voices generally speaking sound very good, may be a bit to much on the bright side. This brightness can be to much with poor recordings and lead to harshness.

I came a bit addicted to this clear bright sound I use now a 2" HF-driver with titanium dome and a Kugelwelllen horn from 550Hz up. To still have the clear (metal-cone) sound. The question is, is this personal taste or a better performing driver with light strong metal cone.

I think it is about using the right filter-parts and XO to get them functioning optimal. I would not use them as basmid, and combine it with a metal cone sub 10">.

[RockLeeEV]

A metal cone 2-way I would love to attempt would be an MTM with 2X Seas W22 + CSS Planar 2, crossed around 1khz.

[juanito]

Oh! such pitty with such negative reports for metal cones... not eaven the excel drivers??
I had in my mind the Seas TRYM kit, with the W22 magnesium cone. May be the Bifrost will do better.
What would you pick first between those to kits? Bifrost seems to have very low efficiency.
I whant to use one of these 2 ways with a pair of monoblocks KT88: Amplificador a válvulas monofónico HIFI MJ-88 II | Santafé & Casterad
On the other side I have a pair of BR 2 ways with Scan Speak's revelator woofer 18 cm. That's why I asked about the metal cones, but of course these kits are not cheap so is better to be sure before buying.
Thanks anyways.