Sure but the GX is many times the price of a Q100!
I am debating between DIY and store bought. DIY works out about 40-50% the cost of a similar store bought but driver availability in India is poor.
Compare the $600 W15CY-Neo 3 or Tony Gee's HATT SE (W12CY+T27) combo to the $1000 Monitor GX 50, KEF R300 etc.. you save about 40% in DIY.
I think he is trying to ensure the XO's baffle step compensation is used correctly.
Ribbons have a nice airy feel to the treble but they are more fragile than typcial dome tweeters. Hence you need a steep XO (24db LR is usually recomended) and spare ribbons (not the whole tweeter just the ribbon itself as that is what gets damaged. Most popular ribbons like the Aurum Cantus or Fountek have foils that are easily replaced).
Speakers - Ribbons
To understand crossovers start with this Crossover cookbook. I like the way Weems and Dickanson explain things.
The Crossover Design Cookbook
here is a Weems link (not the whole book).
David weems speaker - free download - (5 files)
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2MuchRiceMakesMeSick,
The loudspeakers spatial rendition is hugely important and underrated (especially when reproducing a natural acoustic) as is tonal realism, the final Speaker voicing. A speaker should disappear from the ear and reproduce a believable phantom image not just left to right stereo and detail.
You realise this when you hear spatial rendition done well, the speaker gets out of the way of the music. I have heard plenty of large systems with great driver clarity and impressive dynamics only to fall down in these important areas.
My point is driver technology is only a part of the battle. I have heard highly expensive speakers 3 and 4 way designs many times the price of Pluto that are not fit to lick its boots even if they can play much louder.
Navin,
In the UK the GX50 is 2.5 times the price of Q100, not inconsiderable but certainly worth it.
I think this design is preferable to its big brother. Probably better to marry a ribbon to the smallest bass mid you can get away with, better still a smaller dedicated midrange in a three way system like the GX200 speaker uses. The GX cabinets are very well made, for most people it would be extremely hard to produce this quality easily with DIY, at least affordably.
The loudspeakers spatial rendition is hugely important and underrated (especially when reproducing a natural acoustic) as is tonal realism, the final Speaker voicing. A speaker should disappear from the ear and reproduce a believable phantom image not just left to right stereo and detail.
You realise this when you hear spatial rendition done well, the speaker gets out of the way of the music. I have heard plenty of large systems with great driver clarity and impressive dynamics only to fall down in these important areas.
My point is driver technology is only a part of the battle. I have heard highly expensive speakers 3 and 4 way designs many times the price of Pluto that are not fit to lick its boots even if they can play much louder.
Navin,
In the UK the GX50 is 2.5 times the price of Q100, not inconsiderable but certainly worth it.
I think this design is preferable to its big brother. Probably better to marry a ribbon to the smallest bass mid you can get away with, better still a smaller dedicated midrange in a three way system like the GX200 speaker uses. The GX cabinets are very well made, for most people it would be extremely hard to produce this quality easily with DIY, at least affordably.
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It sounds like Troels knows what to look for:
"Hand clapping (applause) from an audience on live recordings is a powerful tool for evaluating driver integration and treble quality, and this speaker excels over any other speaker I have made, and based on experience I know this is mostly due to the planar tweeter."
I think this one is well worth considering:
AT-SW
"Hand clapping (applause) from an audience on live recordings is a powerful tool for evaluating driver integration and treble quality, and this speaker excels over any other speaker I have made, and based on experience I know this is mostly due to the planar tweeter."
I think this one is well worth considering:
AT-SW
I bought the tweeters today. It seems that I have alot of questions on which crossover parts to order.
Digi-key has alot of different caps. How do I know which type to order?
Aluminum,Ceramic,Film,Mica and PTFE,Niobium Oxide,Supercaps, Ultracaps, Electric Double Layer,Tantalum,Thin Film,Trimmers
I would really like to stick with high quality components where it makes sense.
That's a big speaker to have 5 of them ina 10x15 room. You wont need a sub! LOL. 5 7" woofers will move good air.
For crossover parts just talke to Solen. THey make good caps (not unrealistically priced) and inductors. If you really want to splurge get the Litz inductors from them. Otherwise even the "Perfect Lay" series available at Madisound are fine. Get good stuff not crazy stuff.
In the blind testing I had between a Multicap and Solen cap (5uf series cap for the tweeter section) there was no evidence that one was better than the other.
10 drivers? Are you building 5 of these things?
Actually, rob, a faulty amplifier hook up can fry either a ribbon or dome. Ribbons usually are damaged (and many domes too) if they are pushed hard. Typically ribbons have very little Xmax (smaller than good domes) and hence the foil get damaged. The good ribbons like Fountek and Aurum Cantus have replaceable foils (many domes like the MDT33, D2905-9900 too have replaceable dome-voice coil assemblies so you retain the magnet and faceplate and frame).
In effect you can blow a dome as well a ribbon. I have blown both many times including the hardy D28 from Dynaudio and MDT33 from Morel. It is just easier to blow a ribbon and hence most manufacturers cross them over high and steep or both.
Yes I am building a 9.1 system so I will need 9 boxes. The 10th driver was free (10% discount at madisound when you buy 10+). I will be reshaping the boxes to trapezoids. This will allow me to maintain the front baffle width that Troles says is very important.
Thanks! I will give Solen a call.
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He won't strictly "need" a sub at all. However he could still benefit from a couple of sub's doing the really low stuff.
In a tiny room like this I like to run Hi-Fi speakers (not sat's) set to handle "fullrange" signal on an AV amp, even 5 1/4 inch bass mid's will be fine in a room this small with this amount of speakers. Typically this leads to better sound I find.
Faulty amp or do you really love high volume?
I have never blown a tweeter myself but I have seen the effects of attaching a faulty amplifier to a speaker a couple of times. Both were Domes (voice coil melted/fused in one burned piece, same with bass driver, well and truly cooked by DC), it is my understanding it is even easier to kill the ribbons that's all.
Both may be equally screwed in the face of a faulty amp pushing DC.
He won't strictly "need" a sub at all. ...In a tiny room like this I like to run Hi-Fi speakers (not sat's) set to handle "fullrange" signal on an AV amp, even 5 1/4 inch bass mid's will be fine in a room this small with this amount of speakers. Typically this leads to better sound I find.
Faulty amp or do you really love high volume?
Yes in fact with 9 7" woofers I am beginging to feel that there might be a case of too much bass bloom.
9 7" woofers in 10x15 ft. Why? Wel you've ordered the drivers anyway. My advice would be to build 4-5 systems and try the sound with 4.0 (phantom center) or 5.0. 9.1 in 150 sq. ft. is a tad over the top and this coming from someone who have 2 JBL 2245 (B460) bass bins for the bass in a room that was 240 sq. ft. (midbass was 4 8" Focal 8N515 and the tweeters were the MDT33 that I later blew by playing the whole system way too loud - people could hear the music 200-250 meters away).
I have a listening room about the size of 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick's.
I listen down the width of the room, bass is incredibly well balanced. I really wish I could get the bass to be this good in other rooms with larger systems!
Currently I use Linkwitz Pluto 2.1 with no subwoofers. Bass definition is superb. I may experiment with Pluto sub's one day but only "because its there" in mountaineering speak, not because of any additional bass requirements or quality issue.
In larger rooms (home large, not auditorium in Geddes speak) I would want the help of sub's for movies.
I listen down the width of the room, bass is incredibly well balanced. I really wish I could get the bass to be this good in other rooms with larger systems!
Currently I use Linkwitz Pluto 2.1 with no subwoofers. Bass definition is superb. I may experiment with Pluto sub's one day but only "because its there" in mountaineering speak, not because of any additional bass requirements or quality issue.
In larger rooms (home large, not auditorium in Geddes speak) I would want the help of sub's for movies.
Some are missing the point. It is a 9.1 system, not a 2 channel with multiple drivers connected. You will still need the sub for low duty and not all of the drivers will be working at the same time so it won't be overkill with that many woofers. It is so that the timbre remains the same throughout the system. Makes transition more seamless.
That's why I said "However he could still benefit from a couple of sub's doing the really low stuff."
I find two sub's better than one larger one. I also found this in much larger rooms.
However my 1.42pm post explains that set up correctly I do not find the need for any sub at all, at least listening down the width of a small room like this.
I should point out the Pluto 2.1's are active equalized speakers with high quality long throw drivers and linkwitz Transform for the deep bass. The quality from these is such that for my taste they produce excellent bass at sensible volumes.
Many who like Home Theatre/Cinema will want very high volume and powerful overblown bass. Obviously sub's are required for this. I find two (at same volume output) is much better for this. Any more than this would get ridiculous for a small room. Simply physically finding space for the units, let alone any other considerations.
2 much rice,
You should experiment with your AV amp, see what works best in your room. Some may prefer the typical 80hz crossover for instance.
If you experience bass boom sometimes it is good to cross high to a well placed sub or two. That said with well placed speakers in a room that size you will probably find better clarity not using the electronic crossover in the av amp, running every channel fullrange. This is something you could not get away with in a large room, you would have to involve the electronic crossover earlier to protect the speakers and reduce distortion if you wanted high levels.
You should experiment with your AV amp, see what works best in your room. Some may prefer the typical 80hz crossover for instance.
If you experience bass boom sometimes it is good to cross high to a well placed sub or two. That said with well placed speakers in a room that size you will probably find better clarity not using the electronic crossover in the av amp, running every channel fullrange. This is something you could not get away with in a large room, you would have to involve the electronic crossover earlier to protect the speakers and reduce distortion if you wanted high levels.
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I had a passive sub on 5 of my 7 channels for a while, but sadly I had to put them in the basement at this place. Once we move to a proper house again and I can re-do my media room, this is the only way I fly.
You'd be surprised how bass effects can seem to wash over the room just like any other effects. My favorite is at the beginning of Star Trek 6 where the Praxis moon explodes. That rolling shockwave that approaches the ship and then washes over it is ridiculous when you've got surround channels that can go all the way down.
Yes,
Deep, powerful bass like this can be great fun.
Where would Sci-Fi movies be without all that ultra realistic deep bass in the vacuum of deep space!
A great surround sound disc I would suggest trying is the movie Daybreakers. Excellent sound quality and involving sound steering.
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