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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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View Poll Results: Which Kit For High-end Home Theater?
Eekels' Mini 1 3.45%
SEAS 5INCH 1 3.45%
3-Way Classic 2 6.90%
CA18RLY/22TAF-G 0 0%
SEAS Excel Bifrost 3 10.34%
QUATTRO 4 13.79%
Lumine One 1 3.45%
A Different Kit - Please List Below 1 3.45%
I Have No Idea But I Like To Vote 16 55.17%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 17th November 2011, 06:12 AM   #41
navin is offline navin  India
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob g View Post
Have a look a Kef Q100.,,To compare a ribbon speaker look at the Monitor Audio GX range..
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob g View Post
Q100's really great for the price, of course the GX are more capable with nicer treble..
Sure but the GX is many times the price of a Q100!

I am debating between DIY and store bought. DIY works out about 40-50% the cost of a similar store bought but driver availability in India is poor.

Compare the $600 W15CY-Neo 3 or Tony Gee's HATT SE (W12CY+T27) combo to the $1000 Monitor GX 50, KEF R300 etc.. you save about 40% in DIY.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick View Post
He said I must maintain the front of the box as 190mm wide
I think he is trying to ensure the XO's baffle step compensation is used correctly.

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Originally Posted by 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick View Post
Can I ask why you picked ribbons over domes.
Ribbons have a nice airy feel to the treble but they are more fragile than typcial dome tweeters. Hence you need a steep XO (24db LR is usually recomended) and spare ribbons (not the whole tweeter just the ribbon itself as that is what gets damaged. Most popular ribbons like the Aurum Cantus or Fountek have foils that are easily replaced).
Speakers - Ribbons

To understand crossovers start with this Crossover cookbook. I like the way Weems and Dickanson explain things.
The Crossover Design Cookbook

here is a Weems link (not the whole book).
David weems speaker - free download - (5 files)
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Last edited by navin; 17th November 2011 at 06:35 AM.
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Old 17th November 2011, 08:40 PM   #42
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2MuchRiceMakesMeSick,
The loudspeakers spatial rendition is hugely important and underrated (especially when reproducing a natural acoustic) as is tonal realism, the final Speaker voicing. A speaker should disappear from the ear and reproduce a believable phantom image not just left to right stereo and detail.
You realise this when you hear spatial rendition done well, the speaker gets out of the way of the music. I have heard plenty of large systems with great driver clarity and impressive dynamics only to fall down in these important areas.
My point is driver technology is only a part of the battle. I have heard highly expensive speakers 3 and 4 way designs many times the price of Pluto that are not fit to lick its boots even if they can play much louder.

Navin,
In the UK the GX50 is 2.5 times the price of Q100, not inconsiderable but certainly worth it.
I think this design is preferable to its big brother. Probably better to marry a ribbon to the smallest bass mid you can get away with, better still a smaller dedicated midrange in a three way system like the GX200 speaker uses. The GX cabinets are very well made, for most people it would be extremely hard to produce this quality easily with DIY, at least affordably.

Last edited by rob g; 17th November 2011 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 17th November 2011, 09:07 PM   #43
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It sounds like Troels knows what to look for:
"Hand clapping (applause) from an audience on live recordings is a powerful tool for evaluating driver integration and treble quality, and this speaker excels over any other speaker I have made, and based on experience I know this is mostly due to the planar tweeter."
I think this one is well worth considering:
AT-SW
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Old 17th November 2011, 09:44 PM   #44
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I actually ordered the seas 4 and 7 inch drivers (10 of each today). I'm working on obtaining the tweeters and soon I will start on the crossover.

Last edited by 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick; 17th November 2011 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 17th November 2011, 09:48 PM   #45
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How reliable are ribbons anyways?
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Old 17th November 2011, 09:56 PM   #46
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The AT SW is a planar device, different again.

Ribbon reliability?
Shouldn't have any problems unless you are a really volume nutter, you know the type who likes to show off the greatness of his system by playing it too loud.
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Old 17th November 2011, 10:12 PM   #47
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10 drivers eh, not messing about then.
I hope you enjoy your project, they look like nice speakers.

I guess a ribbon may be more easily/quickly damaged by a fault on an amplifier or incorrect hook up. Domes survive more abuse, or so i'm told.
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Old 18th November 2011, 02:59 PM   #48
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Thanks for all the help, I'm getting a quote on tweeters this morning. And I still need to find/order all the crossover parts.
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Old 18th November 2011, 08:58 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob g View Post
Get decent air core inductors. Buy quality cap's from Digikey. Large value cap's buy Solen, audiophile but not nutty price territory.
Hardwire the crossover, put the crossovers in external boxes perhaps.


I bought the tweeters today. It seems that I have alot of questions on which crossover parts to order.

Digi-key has alot of different caps. How do I know which type to order?
Aluminum,Ceramic,Film,Mica and PTFE,Niobium Oxide,Supercaps, Ultracaps, Electric Double Layer,Tantalum,Thin Film,Trimmers

I would really like to stick with high quality components where it makes sense.
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Old 19th November 2011, 02:59 PM   #50
navin is offline navin  India
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick View Post
I only ask this since there are two versions and the only difference is the tweeters/crossover config

TJL3W-JP3 ribbon

SEAS TJL3W
That's a big speaker to have 5 of them ina 10x15 room. You wont need a sub! LOL. 5 7" woofers will move good air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick View Post
I actually ordered the seas 4 and 7 inch drivers (10 of each today). .
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick View Post
I bought the tweeters today.

Aluminum,Ceramic,Film,Mica and PTFE,Niobium Oxide,Supercaps, Ultracaps, Electric Double Layer,Tantalum,Thin Film,Trimmers
For crossover parts just talke to Solen. THey make good caps (not unrealistically priced) and inductors. If you really want to splurge get the Litz inductors from them. Otherwise even the "Perfect Lay" series available at Madisound are fine. Get good stuff not crazy stuff.

In the blind testing I had between a Multicap and Solen cap (5uf series cap for the tweeter section) there was no evidence that one was better than the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob g View Post
10 drivers eh, not messing about then.
I hope you enjoy your project, they look like nice speakers.

I guess a ribbon may be more easily/quickly damaged by a fault on an amplifier or incorrect hook up. Domes survive more abuse, or so i'm told.
10 drivers? Are you building 5 of these things?

Actually, rob, a faulty amplifier hook up can fry either a ribbon or dome. Ribbons usually are damaged (and many domes too) if they are pushed hard. Typically ribbons have very little Xmax (smaller than good domes) and hence the foil get damaged. The good ribbons like Fountek and Aurum Cantus have replaceable foils (many domes like the MDT33, D2905-9900 too have replaceable dome-voice coil assemblies so you retain the magnet and faceplate and frame).

In effect you can blow a dome as well a ribbon. I have blown both many times including the hardy D28 from Dynaudio and MDT33 from Morel. It is just easier to blow a ribbon and hence most manufacturers cross them over high and steep or both.
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