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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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View Poll Results: Which Kit For High-end Home Theater?
Eekels' Mini 1 3.45%
SEAS 5INCH 1 3.45%
3-Way Classic 2 6.90%
CA18RLY/22TAF-G 0 0%
SEAS Excel Bifrost 3 10.34%
QUATTRO 4 13.79%
Lumine One 1 3.45%
A Different Kit - Please List Below 1 3.45%
I Have No Idea But I Like To Vote 16 55.17%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 15th November 2011, 09:47 PM   #21
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No problem especially with crossover components protecting the drive units.
The loudspeaker will be used to play real music and movies, not recieve pure tones. Treble energy is nothing like bass energy and mid energy, you simply do not require that much power to drive the treble.
Check out typical active speakers. Not unusual to see amp's rated say 200w bass, 75w mid, 25 watt treble.

Last edited by rob g; 15th November 2011 at 09:54 PM. Reason: correction
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Old 15th November 2011, 09:51 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m R g S r View Post
You talking about acoustic output ? Or power handling. Two different things.
Both, the first question I was asking if the ~86 db on the on the 5" was with 1w/1m.


The second question I was asking about me putting 130 watts on that ribbon that claims 17w RMS. With a crossover that seems like a really bad idea.
What I am failing to understand is how the driver needs so much power when the ribbons need so little yet the system is balanced. Are the drivers severely underpowered or is the crossover limiting the wattage to the ribbon? Sorry for the noob questions.
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Old 15th November 2011, 09:53 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by rob g View Post
No problem especially with crossover components protecting the drive units.
The loudspeaker will be used to play real music and movies, not recieve pure tones. Treble energy is nothing like bass energy and treble energy, you simply do not require that much power to drive the treble.
Check out typical active speakers. Not unusual to see amp's rated say 200w bass, 75w mid, 25 watt treble.
Perfect, thats what I was looking for thanks!
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Old 15th November 2011, 10:07 PM   #24
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You are filling a relatively small room, this actually has its benefits in some respects.
Speakers have to work much harder to fill larger spaces, increased driver excursion equals greater distortion, thermal limits are hit earlier.

Consider in surround the speakers do not work as hard as they do in two channel. The centre speaker takes pressure off the stereo pair. The rears pull the sound into the room. The Sub relieves the tiny bass/mids of low frequencies.

Do not hook a ribbon straight to the speaker wires ever, you must use the crossover.

Last edited by rob g; 15th November 2011 at 10:20 PM. Reason: smellin pistayke.
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Old 16th November 2011, 02:43 AM   #25
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THIS is the ultimate kit. TJL3W-JP3 ribbon The only issues is....can I change the dimensions of the box to make it more of a bookshelf shape box as long as I maintain the cuft?
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Old 16th November 2011, 04:18 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob g View Post
I would say buy decent components but save money on the boutique caps.
I agree with rob on both points. In fact many places will help you with choosing XO components. I know Solen does.

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Originally Posted by 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick View Post
not sure where i can get the crossover components.
Solen. Dennis Oullet is a very helpful person.

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Originally Posted by rob g View Post
If the ribbon, metal cone design hasn't been handled well it could be harsh and fatiguing.

Personally I would prefer to see larger domes matched to those bass mid's.
1. Ribbons can be very fragile. If you are looking a ribbon kit order a spare set of ribbons as well.

2. Again I agree with Rob. I have tried 19/21mm domes (Dynaudio D21af,a Vifa fabric dome i cant remember th number of, and a few others). These domes are fine if your XO is above 5k but if you are using them in a 2 way at 2-3K they dont sound relaxed - it is almost like they are working too hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick View Post
The second question I was asking about me putting 130 watts on that ribbon that claims 17w RMS.
If you HP at say 5k only about 8% of the energy is above 5k. SO 8% of 130W is about 10W.

Music energy is not level. 50% of the music energy is below 300hz and the other 50% is above. Some modern electronic music might not follow this but classical and 70s rock do,

Similarly about 75% of the energy is below 2500hz and only about 25% is above. Ofcourse this varies from artist to artist and album to album. What we are stating here are very rough rules of thumb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick View Post
THIS is the ultimate kit. TJL3W-JP3 ribbon The only issues is....can I change the dimensions of the box to make it more of a bookshelf shape box as long as I maintain the cuft?
Now I am Confused. I thought you were looking at small bookshelf type speakers. 4-5 of these would overwhelm your room. The TJL2W might be a nicer fit. You could use them for the front and use the W15CY in the rear and center.

SEAS TJL-2W SEAS T25C001 (E0036) version
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Old 16th November 2011, 04:30 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
The more I look at this, the more I like it. the 1" dome is really nice. Both drivers are well respected the 8945A and the 9950. And being large they will have a lot of SD (a 6" has about 35% more Sd than a 5") and hence need to move less for the same SPL. THis will make the system sound relaxed.

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Originally Posted by rob g View Post
Have a look a Kef Q100, Monitor Audio GX range.
I will be comparing these 2 speakers next week. Thanks rob g.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob g View Post
Not unusual to see amp's rated say 200w bass, 75w mid, 25 watt treble.
Like stated earlier the energy spectrum of most music is 50% above 300Hz and 50% below 300Hz.

One reason (I assume) we see 200W amps for the bass and 50-100W amps for the HF is that woofers are largely inductive and need a lot of muscle to control and move quickly. The bigger amps can dump more current and hence control the woofers better.

This is true even if it is a 2 way with the XO at 150Hz. FOr example most people who biamp use a big 200W amp for the bass (sub 150Hz) and only about 50-75W for everything above 200hz.
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Last edited by navin; 16th November 2011 at 04:32 AM.
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Old 16th November 2011, 07:56 PM   #28
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Hi Navin,
Hope you find something you like.
Q100's really great for the price, of course the GX are more capable with nicer treble.

If the Kef and the Monitor Audio are a little too forward sounding for your ears or you do not get on with the strong reflex bass of the GX50 try the Spendor S3/5R2's if this is an option.
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Old 16th November 2011, 08:15 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2MuchRiceMakesMeSick View Post
THIS is the ultimate kit. TJL3W-JP3 ribbon The only issues is....can I change the dimensions of the box to make it more of a bookshelf shape box as long as I maintain the cuft?
Increasing budget and complexity I see. I expect they sound nice, they will not compare well to Linkwitz Pluto 2.1 though, unless they are radically better than the the best box speakers.
That said I imagine they will play slightly louder, although less than you might think.
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Old 16th November 2011, 08:37 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
Now I am Confused. I thought you were looking at small bookshelf type speakers. 4-5 of these would overwhelm your room. The TJL2W might be a nicer fit. You could use them for the front and use the W15CY in the rear and center.

SEAS TJL-2W SEAS T25C001 (E0036) version
I think I can live with the bigger boxes as I think this 3 way will sound much better and a bit louder. I did email Troles and he said that I can make the box not as tall (substituting the depth) but I could not change the dimensions of the front (width 190mm only)

I want to see if I can do something in the the form of this shape but he has not responded.

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