I'm considering starting a project with waveguides, after listening to erjee's http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/195870-el-cuerno.html and keyser's http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/192737-2-way-waveguide-cardioid-like.html .
I think it was Dr. Geddes who mentioned a couple of times that compression drivers have a certain exit angle. I think 6 degrees was mentioned for B&C drivers.
This angle would be relevant for the coupling with the waveguide, I suspect 🙂 . So is there a standard angle, or does this vary among brands? Could I combine an 18sound waveguide with a Beyma compression driver, for example?
Thanks! 🙂
I think it was Dr. Geddes who mentioned a couple of times that compression drivers have a certain exit angle. I think 6 degrees was mentioned for B&C drivers.
This angle would be relevant for the coupling with the waveguide, I suspect 🙂 . So is there a standard angle, or does this vary among brands? Could I combine an 18sound waveguide with a Beyma compression driver, for example?
Thanks! 🙂
In no particular order, I have done some cutting and pasting...
BMS
4550 – 14°
4552 – 24°
4554 – 26.7°
4555 - 30°
B & C
DE250 14.6°
DE10 7.7°
DE12 24°
DE400TN 20.7°
DE400 31°
DE500 17°
DE200 9.9°
DE85TN 34.5°
DE750TN 22°
DE950TN 17°
JBL
2450 10+°
Radian
950 20.3°
Celestion
CDX1-1745 20.16° total
CDX1-1730 20.16°
CDX1-1731 20.16°
CDX1-1746 7.6°
Beyma
CP750Nd – 24º
CP850Nd – 7º
CP755Nd – 12º60’
SMC65Nd – 15º
CP385Nd – 16º30’
SMC225Nd – 13º1’
Choose the CD driver first, then build the throat to match
BMS
4550 – 14°
4552 – 24°
4554 – 26.7°
4555 - 30°
B & C
DE250 14.6°
DE10 7.7°
DE12 24°
DE400TN 20.7°
DE400 31°
DE500 17°
DE200 9.9°
DE85TN 34.5°
DE750TN 22°
DE950TN 17°
JBL
2450 10+°
Radian
950 20.3°
Celestion
CDX1-1745 20.16° total
CDX1-1730 20.16°
CDX1-1731 20.16°
CDX1-1746 7.6°
Beyma
CP750Nd – 24º
CP850Nd – 7º
CP755Nd – 12º60’
SMC65Nd – 15º
CP385Nd – 16º30’
SMC225Nd – 13º1’
Choose the CD driver first, then build the throat to match
Last edited:
Thanks!
I had planned on using a standard off the shelf waveguide. Currently I'm considering the Dayton H10RW or 18sound XT1086. So I would have to find a compression driver to match the waveguide in this case.
I had planned on using a standard off the shelf waveguide. Currently I'm considering the Dayton H10RW or 18sound XT1086. So I would have to find a compression driver to match the waveguide in this case.
For El Cuerno I only considered Eighteensound compression drivers for the XT1086 waveguide under the assumption that the exit angle would match that of the waveguide. Eventually I chose the most expensive one, the NSD1095n, based on their published curves (measured on the XT1086 waveguide).
Based on the curves, the ND1030 could be an attractive option (81 euro):
ND1030 - HF Neodymium Driver
HN-Sound Shop für Veranstaltungstechnik, Casebau | 18 Sound ND1030 | Preiswert und günstig einkaufen
Based on the curves, the ND1030 could be an attractive option (81 euro):
ND1030 - HF Neodymium Driver
HN-Sound Shop für Veranstaltungstechnik, Casebau | 18 Sound ND1030 | Preiswert und günstig einkaufen
Last edited:
ED
Did you or someone else measure those numbers? I ask because I have seen the B&C drawings (not available to the public) and the DE250 was 6 degrees (times two for your numbers I expect). Not a huge error.
There is no standard and even within a single company they vary.
Did you or someone else measure those numbers? I ask because I have seen the B&C drawings (not available to the public) and the DE250 was 6 degrees (times two for your numbers I expect). Not a huge error.
There is no standard and even within a single company they vary.
Earl, I thought it was 6.5 degrees?
I have measured DE250 with calipers, but it's very difficult to get it accurate inside the exit tube, hence not a very accurate result. Easy to be out by 1 degree or more, unless you slice the whole thing in half!
I have measured DE250 with calipers, but it's very difficult to get it accurate inside the exit tube, hence not a very accurate result. Easy to be out by 1 degree or more, unless you slice the whole thing in half!
14.6 is a number that has it's origins somewhere else. I don't know where. I have worked with it.
I have 2) DE250's here with me. I checked the internal angle with a plug gauge. I also made a wooden taper for sanding/removing the ridges (mold marks). The taper I made has no crown. Only the ridges were removed from inside the throat.
Earl, is the throat a simple cone?
The taper I made has been passed along to another for their use with DE250's. I say the internal angle is a lot closer to 14.6 degrees than it is to 12 degrees.
My eye may need recalibration, though I'm confident I can discern to 1/2 degree. I have done surveying lay-out with a 20 second transit and attained closure. I know how to read verniers and split hairs.
Last edited:
Why not consider the QSC waveguide?? PE is selling those now too and so many measurements have proven it to be one of the best waveguide choices out there.
I've looked at it and it seems to perform well, except for a ragged top octave. It's too large, however (14" wide!). I want to couple it with a 10" driver, so about 10" is also the maximum width for the waveguide. I know a larger waveguide would be better, but I want a small speaker 🙂
Some of the Autotech waveguides look nice too, but they're rather expensive.
Some of the Autotech waveguides look nice too, but they're rather expensive.
Last edited:
If you have time to wait then the SEOS-10 will be available (US based production). Testing is happening now. It will be the perfect choice for 10" CDs. Although, I think its a shame to be compromised by width issues. Bigger is better in the world of waveguide design.
Btw, "except for a ragged top octave" has little to do with the waveguide vs CD choice. Also "ragged" is a silly meaningless term used by dome lovers who do not understand that fractional FR plot changes are not audible. There are far more important measurement properties that matter over any visible/non-audiable ragged response issues.
Btw, "except for a ragged top octave" has little to do with the waveguide vs CD choice. Also "ragged" is a silly meaningless term used by dome lovers who do not understand that fractional FR plot changes are not audible. There are far more important measurement properties that matter over any visible/non-audiable ragged response issues.
Last edited:
Yeah that one seems nice, although the vertical pattern seems to be extremely narrow! Would you have any idea how much it would cost then?
Yes, yes, I know. Shame on me 😀. But no, I have a very small room, so 10" is the maximum I want to use. I want to design speakers specifically to fit in a normal room, so if there are some trade-offs to sound quality I'm willing to make them. Although I think a 10" (super)cardioid midrange with 10" waveguide will outperform most other speakers intended for home use.
Sorry for the term; however those small band peaks and dips can be audible on some material. I've also tested this with ABX.
Doug, do you have some more information on that US produced SEOS-10 waveguide, like when they might be available, pricing etc? 🙂
Most of Faital drivers have 12 degrees according the datasheet. I'd need to know it for some 18sound drivers. Trying to measure it I've found something between 10 and 14 degrees, but I don't want to bet on that ...
