There is another observation considering the conventional stereo triangle I have made during the listening test !
This may sound crazy so you better prepare
I noticed that with conventional stereo triangle I could hear smoothly sliding high frequency sound image according to the panning IF:
1) I tilt my head downwards in front so my nose is directed to the floor
or
2) I tilt my head backwards up so my nose is directed to the ceiling.
Be careful with the method 2) if you have a chair with a head rest, It is extremely easy to fall asleep
The case 1) will propably only cause a neck ache in extended listening sessions
What does this means !? My hypothesis is based on learning and inhibition. Because I have not accustomed in listening phantom images directly above nor below my head I cannot easily reveal the trick and my brain is fooled. I believe pinna has a strong part in this
As soon as I put my head straight all the high freq phantom imaging is gone and sound is stuck into the two speakers.
- Elias
This may sound crazy so you better prepare
I noticed that with conventional stereo triangle I could hear smoothly sliding high frequency sound image according to the panning IF:
1) I tilt my head downwards in front so my nose is directed to the floor
or
2) I tilt my head backwards up so my nose is directed to the ceiling.
Be careful with the method 2) if you have a chair with a head rest, It is extremely easy to fall asleep
The case 1) will propably only cause a neck ache in extended listening sessions
What does this means !? My hypothesis is based on learning and inhibition. Because I have not accustomed in listening phantom images directly above nor below my head I cannot easily reveal the trick and my brain is fooled. I believe pinna has a strong part in this
As soon as I put my head straight all the high freq phantom imaging is gone and sound is stuck into the two speakers.
- Elias
My SSS.
This has chr70-1 driver in a sub optimal box... I cross to woofer at about 200hz... Tool me about 10 mins to put box together. As you can see
Spent weekend with these.. I tried a number of approaches.
1. Standard 0.5. Passive
2. Gerzon without HP/LP filters. (No centre delay)
3. Gerzon with HP/LP filters. (No centre delay)
4. Gerzon with HP/LP filters. (Delay on centre, about .5 meter was optimal)
Winner was 4..... However 1 was not far off. When i moved the SSS to a smaller room, 1 was on some songs a little better....
Conclusion?.... I have none... Other than when i delayed the centre i could control the optimal listening distance. Without having to move......
sorry about the sideways image... Im a noob...
This has chr70-1 driver in a sub optimal box... I cross to woofer at about 200hz... Tool me about 10 mins to put box together. As you can see
Spent weekend with these.. I tried a number of approaches.
1. Standard 0.5. Passive
2. Gerzon without HP/LP filters. (No centre delay)
3. Gerzon with HP/LP filters. (No centre delay)
4. Gerzon with HP/LP filters. (Delay on centre, about .5 meter was optimal)
Winner was 4..... However 1 was not far off. When i moved the SSS to a smaller room, 1 was on some songs a little better....
Conclusion?.... I have none... Other than when i delayed the centre i could control the optimal listening distance. Without having to move......
sorry about the sideways image... Im a noob...
This sounds more like sight wins over your hearing. If you listen too much to your single box, high frequencies might shrink to a single central point
Would be interesting to see how you'd perform in a blind test.
My SSS.
This has chr70-1 driver in a sub optimal box... I cross to woofer at about 200hz... Tool me about 10 mins to put box together. As you can see
Spent weekend with these.. I tried a number of approaches.
have You tried simple bipolar L-R with center speaker off and direct sound blocked? and original Stereolith approach that is high pass the center speaker signal at around 2.5 kHz?
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Seems to be Airsound is no more, taken over by Orbitsound.
Sometimes it happends good engineering goes down the drain when marketing department gets into action
If one examines Airsound patents it is seen it is purely a MS stereo (Mid - Side) with L + R in front and L - R and R - L in sides.
Patent Searching Database
- Elias
I think real music is more forgiving than pink noise in terms of optimal distance. But of course if you place yourself in immediate vicinity from the box you can locate the box surely. If there is a chance to optimise the distance, why not
- Elias
Not yet.... I did try quickly the laying speaker on its back. So centre facing up.
didnt listen to any music, i watched a movie it this position. TBH, i didnt feel much was missing. However it was late and i was tired... This was not critical listening.
Optic
Very nice !
Better elements than my FRS8 el'cheapos Some questions I have:
- What was the dimensions of the listening room, and the placement of the speaker and listener therein ?
- Did you also noticed some distance dependency i.e. too close not nice ?
- And yes, did you try with side elements only biboplar stereo (aka Stereolithic projection) ?
- Any measurements ?
- Elias
good news - otherwise in practical terms it would be a regress as compared to pillowed bipole
Isn't it the case for everyone ? Think a situation where a person at few meters away is talking to you, but the sound is coming from 30 degrees off axis
Do you believe you are hallusinating the person there despite you can see him ? If you listen too much to your single box, high frequencies might shrink to a single central point
That could certainly happen one day. Then I just have to reinvent the wheel once again !
I would propably mess up the statistics of any scientific study
- Elias
Not if you're really listening.
Happens all the time that your hearing is telling you something different than your sight. This doesn't cause a cognitive dissonance for me because I've learned that a sound field can deliver different (but valid) localization cues compared to sight. It's just a matter of training I guess.Think a situation where a person at few meters away is talking to you, but the sound is coming from 30 degrees off axis
I measured SSSx5 in room impulse responses using a soft dummy head. The measurement distance is 3 m which is my typical listening distance in 25 m2 size room.
The SSSx5 is signaled with different stereo panning to see how room response changes.
Here is multiresolution Bark wavelets of the impulse responses.
Center panning, L = 0.7, R = 0.7, Right Ear: (left ear is the same because of symmetry)
Right paning, L = 0, R = 1, Right Ear:
Compared to center panning, direct sound at 0ms is reduced and dominant sound from right side wall appears at about 5ms.
Interesting also is the total amount of sound between 5 - 50ms is increased compared to center panning.
Right paning, L = 0, R = 1, Left Ear:
Compared to Right Ear there is considerably less sound overall. Direct sound is less, no strong reflection at 5ms, and also less sound between 5 - 50ms than for the Right Ear.
- Elias
The SSSx5 is signaled with different stereo panning to see how room response changes.
Here is multiresolution Bark wavelets of the impulse responses.
Center panning, L = 0.7, R = 0.7, Right Ear: (left ear is the same because of symmetry)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Right paning, L = 0, R = 1, Right Ear:
Compared to center panning, direct sound at 0ms is reduced and dominant sound from right side wall appears at about 5ms.
Interesting also is the total amount of sound between 5 - 50ms is increased compared to center panning.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Right paning, L = 0, R = 1, Left Ear:
Compared to Right Ear there is considerably less sound overall. Direct sound is less, no strong reflection at 5ms, and also less sound between 5 - 50ms than for the Right Ear.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
- Elias
Yes I have ! Actually just the above measurements from the previous of my post are taken just like that. To achieve 3 m listening distance confortably I pushed the box against the front wall. In my front wall there is a window and a door so no special acoustic treatments except curtains. There was space of about 40 cm between the box and window glass because window is deeper than wall level.
Compared to 1 m distance from front wall, I did not notice much difference. Propably because side firing sound do not mind about the wall being parallel to it (?). And my box plays only down to 200 Hz so no bass issues of wall vicinity either.
- Elias
Not only that, but also I think integrated on wall placement is the best for performance wise as well. Maybe the front wall should appear as a 'curtain' between the listening room and the performance space, and not cause very early reflections. This could further help in creating believable reproduction. One could damp the front wall, but it is very cumbersome action in a living room space. If the speaker is integrated on wall, there is practically no early front wall reflections.
- Elias
Maybe interesting:
Meridian processors with Trifield are quite inexpensive used at ebay.
meridian | eBay
Trifield calculates the center signal in a much more sophisticated way than just summing.
Meridian processors with Trifield are quite inexpensive used at ebay.
meridian | eBay
Trifield calculates the center signal in a much more sophisticated way than just summing.