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Old 15th February 2012, 11:13 AM   #311
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Old 15th February 2012, 02:54 PM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radugazon View Post
After the first test, here is a normal and fearless evolution of the "SSS applied on a multi speaker group". Now the central speaker is also a five 12" array, curved baffle . . .
Aside / OT -
Radugazon:
I think see something there (unrelated to SSS) I've tried too: Are those mass-loaded vinyl baffles? The curved feature of your arrays is as much happy accident as design . . . I too have done MLV baffles because I have access to a lot of it, and because it gives OB speakers a lot of design flexibility (pun intended !).

I've never posted about it for fear of a debate about a flexible baffle being 'wrong' (the answer: Baffle stiffness is completely moot if all resonance(s) fall below Fs of the system. With all those drivers on there, the system is inherently plenty heavy and well-damped).

I'm also going to try some baffles with recycled rubber mat, as it is more elastic and possibly better damped than MLV.
. . . It also smells good, like a new car.

And now, back to the SSS . . .
-- Mark
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Old 15th February 2012, 07:14 PM   #313
sumacSK is offline sumacSK  Slovakia
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Interesting thread! I'm wondering, if one decides to buld such loudspeaker what would be the optimal/suggested implementation of this idea? What would be optimal dispersion characteristics of the speakers at each side? Is there any reason why only fullrange drivers have been used so far? Also what is the optimal bass arrangement? In other words how would you do it if you was to build the loudspeaker from the scratch? thanks!
keep up the good work
martin
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Old 16th February 2012, 12:13 AM   #314
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Default Aside / OT -

Hi Tuba, I think Elias will not call the police, he's an open mind searcher and knows that all roads lead to Rome...

By the smell anecdote, I see that you are experienced. I use truck rear wheels mud guards, very soft rubber with a degree of elasticity, easy to make the holes, 4$ for a 75 x 50 cm plate (in Indonesia). It's also easy to secure them with some screws.
The thickness can be a matter of concern : too much it becomes rigid, too little it becomes almost acoustically transparent. I suppose that 5mm is a good compromise.
The hard structure is just an articulated ladder, I wanted to see what's the influence of concave vs convex (a waste of time and too wide driver inter spacing). Better to go directly to concave. BTW for a specific distance there is a shape that gives the best impulse and Hf extension.
The drivers are not secured hardly to the rubber plates, and not even to the ladder. They are suspended by nylon wires and the rubber dampens very nicely the drivers frames because it's really in forced contact, like a tyre on a wheel. The pictures can help to understand.

It can be considered as ugly and invading, as the ensemble is also suspended, but it's a very easy and fast way to make temporary experiments without hesitating to scrap everything in case of a new luminous idea .
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Last edited by Radugazon; 16th February 2012 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 16th February 2012, 08:22 PM   #315
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus76 View Post
What about the size of the front baffle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubamark View Post
I think it would work best with large side panels and side drivers located closer to the rear than the front. This would increase side directivity and lower the frequency of baffle step (where it becomes audible in front).

I would make the center panel as narrow as driver permits, unless greater enclosure volume is needed. The enclosure could be as tall as needed to provide interior volume.

Also would recommend either well-rounded corners or absorption on the faces to reduce diffraction off front corners of the enclosure.

This may not address every concern mentioned, but it should work better than incarnations to date.

-- Mark

Currently my front panel is 20*40 cm. Side panels are 33*40 cm.

Click the image to open in full size.


Obviously the size of the element (directivity) is important as well as the size of the box.

There are two freq ranges where operation is different:
- at low freq it is based purely on vector steering due to the matrix
- at high freqs the vector steering become ambiguous due to very short wave length, ans so box dimensions and the baffle effect become critical. However the matrix still works at high freqs but it is based rather on 'power' steering than vector steering.


Once I tried 8" full ranges with SSSx5, but it sounded dull. Too much of beaming of the drivers.

So, I think side drivers should have wide dispersion, but not too wide because then they will leak directly to the front. However, the leaking is only a problem in the freq range where wavelength is too short for vector steering to operate but where the directivity of the element has not taken the control.

The ideal size of the box / drivers is ...

- Elias
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Dipole Bass vs Monopole Bass Stereophonic Sound from a Single Loudspeaker 3 Speaker Linear Stereo Matrix Wavelets
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Old 16th February 2012, 08:28 PM   #316
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumacSK View Post
Interesting thread! I'm wondering, if one decides to buld such loudspeaker what would be the optimal/suggested implementation of this idea? What would be optimal dispersion characteristics of the speakers at each side? Is there any reason why only fullrange drivers have been used so far? Also what is the optimal bass arrangement? In other words how would you do it if you was to build the loudspeaker from the scratch? thanks!
keep up the good work
martin

The reason for full range elements at this point.. They are a good way to achieve exellent results fast and with moderate cost and design simplicity !

Other than that, they do provide useful characteristics like close to ideal vector summation from one point, and purposeful directivity if chosen right with the box dimensions.


The bass.. Currently I'm using normal stereo dipole bass with the SSSx5 crossed at 200 Hz. Of course the full ranges do not provide bass alone, have to add something there for support.


- Elias
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Old 16th February 2012, 08:33 PM   #317
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubamark View Post
[
. . . It also smells good
Loudspeakers that smell good Isn't that what we all want lol


- Elias
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Old 16th February 2012, 10:06 PM   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias View Post
The bass.. Currently I'm using normal stereo dipole bass with the SSSx5 crossed at 200 Hz.
Something I've been trying to work out in my head: If one wants to do a really minimalist full-spectrum SSS - using just 3 speakers and 2 channels of amplification, how do we deal with the bass?
I've got some bass-capable coaxes that I want to try SSS . . .

It seems that the L vs R level and phase shifts would make bass very challenging. 3 drivers won't play together well in a common bass enclosure. Creating a (non-matrixed) Lowpass and successful highpass into a matrix would get pretty complicated due to interaction thru the passive crossover region, etc.

Would everything work just fine if we make M = .33 in the bass range? , L-R bass is rarely very far out of phase on most recordings . . .

Waiting for a 'light bulb' in my head to come on,

-- Mark
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Old 17th February 2012, 01:30 AM   #319
John L is offline John L  United States
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Hi, I just noticed this thread, and am going through it. It's an interesting idea, and has me thinking. I haven't had a chance to read everything yet, but my impression is that the single speaker would have to be located in the ideal center of one's position in order to achieve stereo sound.

Unfortunately, speakers don't work well in the center of one's listening area be it near the walls or in the middle of the room. Its just not practical, especially if a TV is entered into the mix, or one has a wife. It simply will not make it beyond the 'spouse factor' IMO.

Anyway, I thought I would get myself established on this thread and receive notifications as it becomes active.
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Old 17th February 2012, 02:12 PM   #320
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John L View Post
Hi, I just noticed this thread, and am going through it. It's an interesting idea, and has me thinking. I haven't had a chance to read everything yet, but my impression is that the single speaker would have to be located in the ideal center of one's position in order to achieve stereo sound.

Unfortunately, speakers don't work well in the center of one's listening area be it near the walls or in the middle of the room. Its just not practical, especially if a TV is entered into the mix, or one has a wife. It simply will not make it beyond the 'spouse factor' IMO.

Anyway, I thought I would get myself established on this thread and receive notifications as it becomes active.

What do you mean by "ideal center of one's position" ?

The location of SSs is not a problem, I have experimented placements in various configurations. It works when placed on the front wall and also 1 m from the front wall. I also succesfully placed it above a TV set.


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