What do I need to build for "Techno" query - Page 3 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 31st October 2011, 01:07 PM   #21
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brighton UK
Basta

Hi,

Not sure if Bagby's justs adds a EQ filter or models cap+driver interaction.

I modelled the driver in 28L 1cuft and get an interesting response using
700 to 800uF in series (also added 0.55R series R) so two in parallel
in ~ 56L / 2 cuft should need 350 to 400uF.

It does flatten the bass peak and extend the bass response.

rgds, sreten.
__________________
There is nothing so practical as a really good theory - Ludwig Boltzmann
When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail - Abraham Maslow
  Reply With Quote
Old 31st October 2011, 03:02 PM   #22
diyAudio Member
 
dirkwright's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Virginia
Hey, Basta! looks nice. Thanks for the link.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2011, 10:11 AM   #23
diyAudio Member
 
Moondog55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Norlane; Geelong: Victoria: Australia
Sreten we seem to be getting similar enough results.
now I am starting to wonder where to put the XO between bass and midrange as I am having trouble with the program ( ever since I upgraded to W-7 and office 2007) I can use any reasonable frequency between 150 and 400 but these woofer probably sound best used below 200.

So I am wondering on the best baffle width now and thinking of making the baffle wider but also considering baffle step problems.

Most modern amps will handle a 4ohm load with ease and at a fairly high DCR of 7.6R I am wondering if I should run 3 woofers with one or two rear firing to counter baffle step.
Where would be the best frequency range to do so assuming either 300 or 450 wide baffles, at the F3 point or somewhere else?/ Higher or lower??
__________________
QUOTE" The more I know, the more I know, I know (insert maniacal laugh >here<) NOTHING"
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2011, 12:48 PM   #24
diyAudio Member
 
dirkwright's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Virginia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
Next door neighbour is a builder, the one who asked me to "fix" his freebie old Sansuis.
The Sansui are no longer a repair option; his uncle found out how good they actually are and kept them.
As I castigated my mate severely ( and told him how much I had spent on the Foster mid-range drivers and the XO parts for the high pass ) he has told me that if I build him a pair of speakers he will "pay" for them with the equivalent in carpenters labour.
young bloke and his main music listening is :"Techno": his wife how-ever is in the movie music business and has a preference for classical at home.
The very first thing I'd do is ask the wife what the largest sized boxes she will tolerate in her living room. Get some cardboard boxes of various sizes and show her. Then, once you have a rough maximum volume to work from, you can design accordingly.
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2011, 02:50 PM   #25
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brighton UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
Sreten we seem to be getting similar enough results.
now I am starting to wonder where to put the XO between bass and midrange as I am having trouble with the program ( ever since I upgraded to W-7 and office 2007) I can use any reasonable frequency between 150 and 400 but these woofer probably sound best used below 200.

So I am wondering on the best baffle width now and thinking of making the baffle wider but also considering baffle step problems.

Most modern amps will handle a 4ohm load with ease and at a fairly high DCR of 7.6R I am wondering if I should run 3 woofers with one or two rear firing to counter baffle step.
Where would be the best frequency range to do so assuming either 300 or 450 wide baffles, at the F3 point or somewhere else?/ Higher or lower??
Hi,

I believe the most difficult part of getting a 3 way to work properly is
the marriage of the bass units to to the mid/treble because there are
all sorts of issues and options that need to be balanced.

What sentivitity are the bass units ? specs / link for the midranges ?
What tweeter are you think of using ? specs /link ?

2 cuft internal is still a big box to some. I'm assuming a floor stander,
and you are going with two bass drivers sealed with a series cap.

Two possible options :

You make them deep and narrow for WAF, with dual side firing woofers
This implies "freespace" positioning away from the back wall. This will
have the best imaging (nice for classical) but meant issues dependent
on the relative specs of the bass and mids. the dual bass units won't
suffer bafflestep, but the midrange will, but it needs a low c/o point.

or :

You make them wide and shallow to be used up against a wall. My
guess with two front bass drivers, one close to the floor BSC, is
that BSC might not be an issue, or only a small amount needed.
Here you can c/o somewhat higher.

Regarding c/o point :

Nedd to know more about the quality of the drivers, the level
of ambition, budget, and philosophy regarding c/o simplicity.

For a build where budget is an issue the fist thing I'd investigate
is a cascaded 1st order series c/o because it is so elegant.
But it might be hopelessly inadequate - you have to model and see.

rgds, sreten.
__________________
There is nothing so practical as a really good theory - Ludwig Boltzmann
When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail - Abraham Maslow
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2011, 03:20 PM   #26
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brighton UK
Hi,

Bactracking it seems close to wall positioning is the option, so fairly wide
and shallow seems the best option. (Though NHT's classic models used
the exact opposite with low side firing woofers for this room position).

Depending on the ambition a two box arrangement ? Mid in the top
box (with the c/o most likely) and tweeter below, mounted at the
top of the bass box ? idea here is to keep the midrange away
from large speaker panels, just a thought .....

For simple c/o's the points move up, to get away from the mids
bass resonance, ferrofluid damped tweeters are good, there is
no resonance, here distortion issues raise the simple c/o point.

rgds, sreten.
__________________
There is nothing so practical as a really good theory - Ludwig Boltzmann
When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail - Abraham Maslow
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2011, 09:46 PM   #27
diyAudio Member
 
Moondog55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Norlane; Geelong: Victoria: Australia
It's paradoxical but music professionals seem to be less concerned by music reproduction when at home, for this instance WAF says smaller is better.
having looked at the room even 1 woofer is going to be enough, the room is quite small even by the standards of the area we live in.

The mids are a cheap generic 5 inch polycone with a surprising big magnet and reasonable sensitivity and I have used them many times before and usually crossed second order electrical in enclosures of about 6 litres and high passed around 4k to a silk domed tweeter with an Fs of 1900Hz that is FF damped and designed for surface mounting.
For Aussies this is the discontinued Digitor 25mm tweeter, surprisingly good for a budget chain and of course no longer available as Dick Smith are no longer an electronics store.
4k was originally chosen to give me an octave above the tweeters Fs even tho it is a little high to cross from a 5 inch mid.

I can probably go down to 3500 with few problems given the low power of the amp that will be used and the fact that the volume will be lower given the small room
__________________
QUOTE" The more I know, the more I know, I know (insert maniacal laugh >here<) NOTHING"
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2011, 09:56 PM   #28
diyAudio Member
 
Moondog55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Norlane; Geelong: Victoria: Australia
Snapshot of the mids (2) in a large sealed box at 20watts and a nominal XO, experience and modelling say a second order electrical gives me a 4th order acoustic slope, also that the rising response of the woofer and the peak at the top end and the break-up after 2k mean I'll need a at a minimum a second order electrical to give me a second order acoustic slope although a strange first order may work.
These are not going to be "good" speakers, definitely not state of the art, LOL; but I want them to be many orders or merit better than the $10- computer monitors they are currently using for music.
My budget for building the XO is about $200- AUD and the drivers would cost about the same at retail if I stick to single drivers and I expect that the end result will be worth about 3 days carpenters labour.
He still owes me a half day for the lemon cheesecake of last month
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Jaycar polycone 5 CW2101.jpg (272.4 KB, 70 views)
__________________
QUOTE" The more I know, the more I know, I know (insert maniacal laugh >here<) NOTHING"

Last edited by Moondog55; 1st November 2011 at 10:02 PM. Reason: Add reasoning and budget estimate
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2011, 10:04 PM   #29
diyAudio Member
 
Moondog55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Norlane; Geelong: Victoria: Australia
Picture disappeared when I edited
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Jaycar polycone 5 CW2101.jpg (272.4 KB, 67 views)
__________________
QUOTE" The more I know, the more I know, I know (insert maniacal laugh >here<) NOTHING"
  Reply With Quote
Old 1st November 2011, 10:07 PM   #30
diyAudio Member
 
Patrick Bateman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Quote:
Originally Posted by GM View Post
It really depends on the genre, but there's plenty of techno that digs into the single digits.

Here's some analysis of various tracks that I did a couple of years back:

BASS! How Low Can You Go? - DIYMA.com - Scientific Car Audio - Truth in Sound Quality

When I added a 15hz 350lb tapped horn to my subwoofer array, I immediately noticed additional 'weight' on tracks like 'One more time' by Daft Punk. This is house music more than techno, though.

My analysis indicates that techno tracks by Richie Hawtin have beats at three hertz.

Last week I went to a Skrillex show, and it was without a doubt the most bass I have ever heard in my whole life. There was easily ten hertz bass, maybe lower. There's an Amtrak train that goes by my house twice a day, and Skrillex was lower and louder. (Skrilex is mostly dubstep btw)
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"TECHNO"Amp building in progress-using "Iron Method" zox2003 Solid State 23 30th March 2010 08:42 PM
What makes an amplifier "bright", "warm", or "neutral"? JohnS Solid State 51 13th December 2009 06:42 PM
Query regarding "stacking" T-lines Volenti Subwoofers 6 11th November 2005 08:27 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:12 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2