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Old 30th October 2011, 09:55 PM   #11
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

FWIW with low Fs, high Vas, and highish Qts drivers rather than aperoidic
perhaps 3rd order with big series capacitors is the best option for such
drivers. The free version of Basta! is good for modelling it I've found.

also see : http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/do...20Box_copy.pdf

You can't force drivers into boxes they don't want to go into. Two in 3rd
order sealed on the left and right in force cancelling mode crossed over
to a mid should be an option.

I can't comment on whether one or two (or four) will be loud enough.

rgds, sreten.
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Last edited by sreten; 30th October 2011 at 10:00 PM.
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Old 30th October 2011, 10:39 PM   #12
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I have used that design before on big sealed subwoofers but I thought the mass was a little low on these woofers. I thought that Qms needed to be about or above 10 to get the most benefit from this technique??

FYI the cap bundle for the Kicker was ~ 1400uF
Thanx for the link I hadn't read the page or design
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Old 30th October 2011, 11:21 PM   #13
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The midrange I will use is usable from about 150 up BTW in a small (3litre ) sealed as it is a small woofer (5inch ) with good performance to 4k and a reasonably low Fs of 58hz
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Old 30th October 2011, 11:55 PM   #14
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Anybody know how paste the screendump in W7?
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Old 31st October 2011, 12:40 AM   #15
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post
I thought that Qms needed to be about or above 10 to get the most benefit from this technique??
Hi,

You've lost me there, Qms doesn't come into it, Qts does. Qbox needs to
be around 1.0 rather than the typical 0.7 or so sealed. higher Q drivers
need big boxes to get to 0.7, this is where the 3rd order alignment helps.

Qms = 3.7 and Qes = 0.53 ends up as Qts = 0.46.

Fs = 30Hz, Vas = 92L.

90L per driver vented at 25Hz is a pretty good response,
but that is IMO a far too big box for a 10" so forget it.

Sealed for Q = 0.7 = 70L, 0.8 = 45L, 0.9 = 33L, 1.0 = 25L.

So two with series caps should be around 50L to 65L.

I haven't played with it for a while but Basta! models it.

rgds, sreten.
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Last edited by sreten; 31st October 2011 at 12:47 AM.
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Old 31st October 2011, 01:11 AM   #16
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I get a much bigger box to give that result but I am using a series resistance of almost .7R as that seems realistic given his amp and existing speaker cable and the internal wiring combined.
2 in parallel seem to model at 107dB given a 100 watts and Xmax limit
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Old 31st October 2011, 01:42 AM   #17
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

Bass SPL max only depends on CSA, Xmax + frequency so saying its
107dB without a given frequency does not make a lot of sense to me.

In the thermal limit region it it fixed, sensitivity + power handling,
the excursion limited region is an entirely different matter, usually.

rgds, sreten.
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Old 31st October 2011, 05:07 AM   #18
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This would be easy if I could paste the graph but for some reason W7 won't let me.
107dB from 100Hz to 60Hz and 10db down at 35Hz when the cap is placed in line
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Old 31st October 2011, 06:31 AM   #19
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OK this is at 100 watts in 75 litres and a first order electrical at 30 Hz nominal, modelled using JBagbys program
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Jaycar CW 2116.jpg (245.4 KB, 111 views)
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Old 31st October 2011, 12:23 PM   #20
DrDyna is offline DrDyna  United States
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I'd be careful, some folks lump some off-types of dubstep into techno and I've got a few albums with bass throbs in the 20 and 30 cycle range, some of it is quite brutal.
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