What do I need to build for "Techno" query

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diyAudio Member
Joined 2007
Next door neighbour is a builder, the one who asked me to "fix" his freebie old Sansuis.
The Sansui are no longer a repair option; his uncle found out how good they actually are and kept them.
As I castigated my mate severely ( and told him how much I had spent on the Foster mid-range drivers and the XO parts for the high pass ) he has told me that if I build him a pair of speakers he will "pay" for them with the equivalent in carpenters labour.
young bloke and his main music listening is :"Techno": his wife how-ever is in the movie music business and has a preference for classical at home.

What are my targets for a speaker to perform this role in a medium sized room; 5m * 4m and a 2.7M ceiling height.

will 101db peaks be good enough or do I need to aim for club levels??

Does Techno have a lot of deep bass or is it mainly about kick-drum and a peaky 100Hz, not my usual listening music so please forgive what appears to be a beginners query.

If possible I'd like to use existing drivers and if the Jaycar polycone 10s will do the job( in a vented box for maximum punch ) I have some sonically matching mids i can use and keep the Foster for my use in the future
 
diyAudio Member
Joined 2007
A wealth of knowledge GM as usual, thanx again

Well that is a surprise, no where near as much bass as I build into mine, what I have on the shelf looks perfect for the "DOOF-DOOF", now I'm wondering if I should look at a slightly higher "Q" box to emphasise the "doof"
A smaller sealed box would have much greater WAF and fit in the room better
 

GM

Member
Joined 2003
You're welcome! Actually, there's been it and several other musical references in prosound apps threads that I didn't have a clue what they were referring to, so Googled 'frequency response of techno music' and it magically appeared: frequency response of techno music - Google Search

Dunno about peak SPLs, I assume this music is highly compressed, so cranked up to ~100 dB average, the loudest I enjoyed R&R in a very low distortion system, though John Q. Public tends to tolerate much more distortion judging by what I've suffered through at various 'watering holes'/casual restaurants/sports bars where they have weekend live 'entertainment' [I use the term very loosely!], so seems like ~105-110 dB [distorted] peaks would be enough at home.

Anyway, getting such a high Q peak with a somewhat lower Fb typically requires a 6th order BP, so I assume they start with a typical prosound vented 'sub' that emphasizes the mid-bass and EQ it to more narrowly define the peak.

Then again, a car audio 'sub'woofer with its typically high Le, low Vas in a high Q sealed alignment appears to be ideal if XO'd low to get the mid-bass flat enough [dark blue trace].

GM
 

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Hi,

EQ of recordings does not apply to EQ of playback which should be flat.

What they tell you is where you will likely hit your SPL limits. Here what is needed
for techno is a decent sized bass driver with excursion for high upper bass levels /
clean upper bass levels at normal volumes. Throw in classical requirements and
you get to a vented box tuned low, i.e. basically a good loudspeaker.

You cannot make a speakers response suit musical styles, only capabilities.
Levels are very personal, one persons loud is anothers ridiculous levels.

10"ers should be up for the job, but tuned low for both requirements.
What are the specs of the driver in question ?

rgds, sreten.
 
...he has told me that if I build him a pair of speakers he will "pay" for them with the equivalent in carpenters labour.
Do you have the drivers or have to buy them? He could build the boxes for you.. Doesn't seem like a fair deal!:)

I would go (with a speaker good for both classical/dance) with a fair mid speaker like a compression driver and a good woofer (s) high sensitivity, and with good mid (and bass) extension. "A la" Geddes or "a la" W.Parham.
GedLee - diyAudio
Pi Speakers - unmatched quality and state-of-the-art performance

Another good one is the Troels HES, High-Efficiency Speaker Constructions with the Jantzen-audio JA8008.:cool:
QUATTRO
 
Thanks for the link. With response curves like those, what kind of music
do people whom obsess with tweeters and super tweeters listen to?
I'm beginning to think those FR people are the sane ones.

Hi, they are not remotely response curves, they are SPL curves, rgds, sreten.

Average tweeter levels are very low, otherwise they'd all fry, but the curves
have no relation to the frequency response required, which is essentially flat.
Peak tweeter levels are high, which is why they sounds as loud as they do.

The FR bunch are not on to anything, other than it doesn't sound that bad.
 
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diyAudio Member
Joined 2007
The mate is a carpenter not a cabinet maker and he can do framing work I cannot so in that regard I'm happy with the deal.

Also I do have a garage full of accumulated drivers.
Hi Sreten, the woofers are cheap generic polycones, Fs 30hz; Vas 92litres; Xmax 5mm; Qms3.7; Qes0.530 ( Factory specs and these are not measured ) but the others I have used all have much lower Fs and higher Qms
They do have a ragged and peaky top end but not until 3k
Previously I have used them as sealed in 35 litre Aperiodic boxes ( fully stuffed and leaky ) where they are just OK and nothing at all special.
These will be used close to a wall do to the constraints of the listening environment.
modelling ported boxes they need a huge box (Vas * 2) but WAF will not allow a couple of 400 litre boxes in this small room and modelling says they need dual woofers to maintain 100dB without popping the voice coil out of the gap
 
Hi,

FWIW with low Fs, high Vas, and highish Qts drivers rather than aperoidic
perhaps 3rd order with big series capacitors is the best option for such
drivers. The free version of Basta! is good for modelling it I've found.

also see : http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download/Humble Homemade Hifi_Black Box_copy.pdf

You can't force drivers into boxes they don't want to go into. Two in 3rd
order sealed on the left and right in force cancelling mode crossed over
to a mid should be an option.

I can't comment on whether one or two (or four) will be loud enough.

rgds, sreten.
 
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diyAudio Member
Joined 2007
I have used that design before on big sealed subwoofers but I thought the mass was a little low on these woofers. I thought that Qms needed to be about or above 10 to get the most benefit from this technique??

FYI the cap bundle for the Kicker was ~ 1400uF
Thanx for the link I hadn't read the page or design
 
I thought that Qms needed to be about or above 10 to get the most benefit from this technique??

Hi,

You've lost me there, Qms doesn't come into it, Qts does. Qbox needs to
be around 1.0 rather than the typical 0.7 or so sealed. higher Q drivers
need big boxes to get to 0.7, this is where the 3rd order alignment helps.

Qms = 3.7 and Qes = 0.53 ends up as Qts = 0.46.

Fs = 30Hz, Vas = 92L.

90L per driver vented at 25Hz is a pretty good response,
but that is IMO a far too big box for a 10" so forget it.

Sealed for Q = 0.7 = 70L, 0.8 = 45L, 0.9 = 33L, 1.0 = 25L.

So two with series caps should be around 50L to 65L.

I haven't played with it for a while but Basta! models it.

rgds, sreten.
 
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diyAudio Member
Joined 2007
I get a much bigger box to give that result but I am using a series resistance of almost .7R as that seems realistic given his amp and existing speaker cable and the internal wiring combined.
2 in parallel seem to model at 107dB given a 100 watts and Xmax limit
 
Hi,

Bass SPL max only depends on CSA, Xmax + frequency so saying its
107dB without a given frequency does not make a lot of sense to me.

In the thermal limit region it it fixed, sensitivity + power handling,
the excursion limited region is an entirely different matter, usually.

rgds, sreten.
 
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