Recommendation of speaker elements (2-way, floor-stander)

[onda]

Hi!
I am a student, working on a project where I will be building a pair of speakers. (With intentions of learning how a speaker is built and work.)

I have decided on these factors;
- 2-way
- Floor-standing
- Budget for elements + crossover about $200-250)
(I live in Sweden - Europe-Audio will be my main source.)

I would like use a finished build as inspiration, as I have limited knowledge on designing a crossover, and pairing elements. I have already designed a cabinet (curved sides etc), which will be modified to the right volume and elements. If I had a finished build to work from, I would have the correct dimensions, volumes etc, which would greatly help my design process.

I have found Troels Gravesen's design, using Vifa PL18WO-09-08 + XT25TG30-04 (Vifa PL18WO-), but it seems to have very little information on sound and so on. My question to you is, do you have any other recommendations on elements + crossover, with better value than the Troel's design? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[planet10]

This one worked out well, might exceed your budget by a bit. The EL166 (AKA Mark Audio No6) MA No3 2 way from Blue Planet is a know good as well and should be well under budget. audio-talk :: View topic - EDINGDALE speaker build

dave

 

[dirkwright]

There's this one:
http://www.parts-express.com/product/productdetails.cfm?PartNumber=300-700
I can help you get it to Sweden if you're keen on it. It's a floor standing MTM with a transmission line for the bass units.

 

[sreten]

Hi,

Many 6.5" bass/mids 1" tweeter designs should suit your cabinets.

Take at look at the first few links below :

But probably look no further than :
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy/amiga
based on :
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/core-2-way
As both drivers are available at special offer prices from
Europe Audio. £39 for the bass mids and £19 for the tweeters,
I don't think you'll be able to find a cheaper decent combination.

rgds, sreten.


undefinition
(see if nothing else, the excellent FAQs)
The Speaker Building Bible - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com
Zaph|Audio
FRD Consortium tools guide
Designing Crossovers with Software Only
RJB Audio Projects
Jay's DIY Loudspeaker Projects
Speaker Design Works
HTGuide Forum - A Guide to HTguide.com Completed Speaker Designs.
DIY Loudspeaker Projects Troels Gravesen
Humble Homemade Hifi
Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design
The Frugal-Horns Site -- High Performance, Low Cost DIY Horn Designs
Linkwitz Lab - Loudspeaker Design
Music and Design

Great free SPICE Emulator : SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program - TINA-TI - TI Tool Folder

 

[onda]

First off, thank you all for the recommendations.

I have pretty much decided on the Amiga model (https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy/amiga), and I was about to order the components today.

Speaker elements and the inductors are no problem, I can order them from Europe-Audio. I am however having some problem with the resistors and capacitors. Only Parts-Express seem to have some of those components, but their shipping cost is $50 for 6 resistors and 6 capacitors, worth a total of $20.

That doesn't seem like a fair deal to me. Does anyone know where I can find corresponding components in Europe, with the same specifications and quality? I have found some of them at Europe-Audio, but I am to unsure that they are identical apart from brand, to actually order them.

The components are (Parts-Express #);

(2pcs) 027-424
(2pcs) 027-402
(2pcs) 027-426
(2pcs) 004-5.1
(2pcs) 004-4.7
(2pcs) 004-2

Maybe another solution would be of some kind soul in the USA would be so kind to order those parts from Parts-Express, and send them to Sweden via an cheaper alternative than Fedex, such as USPS. (I would of course pay in advance, through PayPal.)

Any advice would be appreciated!
Thank you.

 

[Billyo]

I can vouch for the Tony Gee LBS design - see www.humblehomemadehifi.com and look under downloads (dont be fooled by the name "humble"...). Drivers are made by Monacor in Germany, so you could almost take a day trip and go and get them.

It will be hard up against your budget, but after finishing a build, I've learned that the electrics and drivers are only 25-33% of the cost of your first build anyway.

 

[onda]

I can vouch for the Tony Gee LBS design - see www.humblehomemadehifi.com and look under downloads (dont be fooled by the name "humble"...). Drivers are made by Monacor in Germany, so you could almost take a day trip and go and get them.

It will be hard up against your budget, but after finishing a build, I've learned that the electrics and drivers are only 25-33% of the cost of your first build anyway.

Yeah, well, as I said in my earlier post, I am pretty much sure I will go the Amiga way. My main concern is if I can get hold of corresponding crossover components in Europe. The LBS design would probably cost me even more. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[sreten]

Hi,

I assume you are taking those parts rather too literally

(2pcs) 027-424
6.80u cross cap - Jantzen cross cap 6.80u 400V - Europe Audio

(2pcs) 027-402
0.22u cross cap - Jantzen cross cap 0.22u 400V - Europe Audio

(2pcs) 027-426
8.20u cross cap - Jantzen cross cap 8.20u 400V - Europe Audio

(2pcs) 004-5.1
use 4.7 or 5.6 - I'd say 5.6, A 5.1R 5% resistor should not exist ....
CER-10-5.6R - Jantzen ceramic resistor 10W 5% 5.6R - Europe Audio

(2pcs) 004-4.7
CER-10-4.7R - Jantzen ceramic resistor 10W 5% 4.7R - Europe Audio

(2pcs) 004-2
Use 2.2. It will be fine in that circuit position.
CER-10-2.2R - Jantzen ceramic resistor 10W 5% 2.2R - Europe Audio

rgds, sreten.

 

[onda]

Hi,

I assume you are taking those parts rather too literally

(2pcs) 027-424
6.80u cross cap - Jantzen cross cap 6.80u 400V - Europe Audio

(2pcs) 027-402
0.22u cross cap - Jantzen cross cap 0.22u 400V - Europe Audio

(2pcs) 027-426
8.20u cross cap - Jantzen cross cap 8.20u 400V - Europe Audio

(2pcs) 004-5.1
use 4.7 or 5.6 - I'd say 5.6, A 5.1R 5% resistor should not exist ....
CER-10-5.6R - Jantzen ceramic resistor 10W 5% 5.6R - Europe Audio

(2pcs) 004-4.7
CER-10-4.7R - Jantzen ceramic resistor 10W 5% 4.7R - Europe Audio

(2pcs) 004-2
Use 2.2. It will be fine in that circuit position.
CER-10-2.2R - Jantzen ceramic resistor 10W 5% 2.2R - Europe Audio

rgds, sreten.

Hi,
Wonderful, thank you! I did search some at Europe-Audio, but I was to unsure the components function would be the same. I did also find it quite strange that the only 5.1R resistor was sold by Parts-Express. So there should be no substantial difference if I use a 5.6R resistor instead? BTW, I can see that the resistors you linked to, says 400V, and the original ones from Parts-Express says 250 V. Will this matter?
Many thanks.

 

[sreten]

Hi,

Seems you can get values in the USA that are not "standard". Like 2R and
8R where the actual standard 5% tolerance values are 2.2R and 8.2R.

Using 5.6R will dull the treble very slightly, room furnishings make far more
difference, so its effectively next to no difference, very unsubstantial.

Higher voltage capacitors are slightly better, both types are way above
the 100V or so you actually need, so no worries here, it will be fine.

rgds, sreten.

 

[onda]

Hi,

Seems you can get values in the USA that are not "standard". Like 2R and
8R where the actual standard 5% tolerance values are 2.2R and 8.2R.

Using 5.6R will dull the treble very slightly, room furnishings make far more
difference, so its effectively next to no difference, very unsubstantial.

rgds, sreten.

As this is my first build, I doubt I will hear any difference.
Final question though, will the different voltage of the resistors make any difference, or is the value just an indicator of how much voltage the resistors can handle?

 

[sreten]

As this is my first build, I doubt I will hear any difference.
Final question though, will the different voltage of the resistors make any difference, or is the value just an indicator of how much voltage the resistors can handle?

Hi, edited last post to answer that, rgds, sreten.

 

[crazyhub]

you may get close to 5.1 ohm simply by parallelling two 10 ohm.

 

[Billyo]

The LBS design would probably cost me even more. Thanks for the suggestion though.

I found to my surprise that to get a really great result, the costs that are bandied around of a few hundred dollars for a pair are waaay to low for your first build (well... mine anyway), because they dont take into account the equipment that you'll need to buy.

Don't forget things like a sawtable, circular saw, saw blade, vise, somewhere to attach the vise, binding posts, glue, primer, color coat, clear coat, sand paper, sander, drill, drill bits, router, router bits, multiple clamps, glue, screws, long rulers, set squares, circular jigs, putty (I grew to love epoxy putty!), etcetera...

Sure, you could go and get the pieces pre-cut, but then if you ruin a bit, then you'll have to go back... also, I think that you're cheating a bit on the whole DIY experience.

All of these will add up big time, but once you have them, second and subsequent builds will be cheap. My advice is not to scrimp on your drivers and components, because their cost is relatively small compared to big ticket expenses like the saw.

 

[onda]

I found to my surprise that to get a really great result, the costs that are bandied around of a few hundred dollars for a pair are waaay to low for your first build (well... mine anyway), because they dont take into account the equipment that you'll need to buy.

Don't forget things like a sawtable, circular saw, saw blade, vise, somewhere to attach the vise, binding posts, glue, primer, color coat, clear coat, sand paper, sander, drill, drill bits, router, router bits, multiple clamps, glue, screws, long rulers, set squares, circular jigs, putty (I grew to love epoxy putty!), etcetera...

Sure, you could go and get the pieces pre-cut, but then if you ruin a bit, then you'll have to go back... also, I think that you're cheating a bit on the whole DIY experience.

All of these will add up big time, but once you have them, second and subsequent builds will be cheap. My advice is not to scrimp on your drivers and components, because their cost is relatively small compared to big ticket expenses like the saw.

Hi,
I agree with you completely. Fortunately for me, my father has a well-equipped garage, containing most of the tools I will be needing. As for the low budget of the elements, this build will be part of a school-project (its my last year at high-school), where price (excluding tools) is one of my primary concerns.

Either way, the drivers and crossover components are ordered! I have made a preliminary CAD-drawing, and I will probably go buy some MDF next weekend, so I can start building.

Thank you all for the help!

 

[_henry_]

hi onda,

please do share your cad drawings. the AMIGA looked very interesting.

heard many good things about the RS180.

cheers
henry

 

[Michael Chua]

Hi!
I have found Troels Gravesen's design, using Vifa PL18WO-09-08 + XT25TG30-04 (Vifa PL18WO-), but it seems to have very little information on sound and so on. My question to you is, do you have any other recommendations on elements + crossover, with better value than the Troel's design? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I have a Vifa PL18 in a bookshelf size. Quite a nice driver but difficult to cross in a 2-way.

For a floor-stander, check out my Dayton RS180 in a 40L mini tower.