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Old 24th October 2011, 04:23 PM   #1
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Default Volt drivers in 3 way system, help needed

Hello
I would like to get some opinion about these driver used as a woofer in a 3way system
http://www.audio-components.co.uk/pd...ts/DVC2517.pdf
My question can I use a single voice coil 8R as a woofer with out any setback.
Very hard to find a good woofer for a 60L enclosure to know 30Hz f3 close to 90db.
I know these is a bit expensive to buy 2 of them. But I want to set up the cross point at 500Hz so to get the best Stereo image I must use two of these. Also it has it little brother 8" woofer
http://www.audio-components.co.uk/pd...ts/DVC2517.pdf
My fried did simulation and from 50L get around 35Hz but very ugly curve.
I see a company use these as a woofer in 50L and their data for the speaker start from 30Hz
CLASSIQUE - Gold
How these guys get 30Hz, and 91db???
I asked them to send more information but unfortunately no answer.
To me these 8" would be the best, cost less and I have a great 50L enclosure.
Any opinion welcome.
Thank you .
Greetings Gabor
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Old 24th October 2011, 09:02 PM   #2
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Hello
Nobody??
At least I would like to know if the simulation is correct.
http://www.audio-components.co.uk/pd...cts/BM2208.pdf
Please help
Greetings gabor
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Old 24th October 2011, 10:04 PM   #3
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For the 8” driver, a flat alignment is Vb ~ 30L tuned to ~ 40Hz, F3 39Hz
50L is a bit big, you can get an EBS alignment if tuned to ~ 30Hz for an F3 of 31Hz.
Depends how solid you like your bass

The 10” in 60L tuned to 35Hz will get you an F3 of 31Hz, but this driver has a high Le, starts to roll off around 150Hz

re:"How these guys get 30Hz, and 91db???' - they don't quote any dB limits...marketing...
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Last edited by PeteMcK; 24th October 2011 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 24th October 2011, 10:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMcK View Post
For the 8” driver, a flat alignment is Vb ~ 30L tuned to ~ 40Hz, F3 39Hz
50L is a bit big, you can get an EBS alignment if tuned to ~ 30Hz for an F3 of 31Hz.
Depends how solid you like your bass

The 10” in 60L tuned to 35Hz will get you an F3 of 31Hz, but this driver has a high Le, starts to roll off around 150Hz

re:"How these guys get 30Hz, and 91db???' - they don't quote any dB limits...marketing...
In this case I wouldn't be very suspicious. The frequency response could be -10dB or other, in this case it could be -3dB. I don't intend to answer for others mistakes, or lack of information as that is a rule in this market even among diyAudio members. But, the spec could be with different alignments (that OP is not using).
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Old 24th October 2011, 10:58 PM   #5
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Hello PeteMcK
Thank you so much
can you explain these please?
you can get an EBS alignment if tuned to ~ 30Hz for an F3 of 31Hz.
Depends how solid you like your bass

That is what I would like to get close to 30Hz, also as much is possible to get solid bass.
Do you think is true the CLASSIQUE - Gold they really get 30Hz at F3?
Unfortunately I didn't got answer yet from them..
A have a pair Monacor SPH-200KE 8 woofer, they go done nice to 30Hz but way to soft.
SPH-200KE - Monacor top HiFi bass-midrange speaker 120Wmax 8 Ohm - Europe Audio
Can be because the Kevlar membrane (I don't know, I have good experience with Kevlar woofers 5") or the speaker design..
Top of that after my friend simulation he wrote Monacor lie about the driver sensitivity only 87.75dB 2.83V/1m
That would be not the biggest problem, the soft base I hate it.
I do not find nothing to get from 50L close to 30Hz but around 90db.
My mid Gorlich 92db and tweeter More 91db.
The reason I taught to use the VOLT driver but after the sim He wrote it may be will be worst than the Monacor..
The best I can get 35Hz -F3..
When I found these CLASSIQUE - Gold speaker I taught finally I get the right woofer but after the sim. something fishy there to.
I'll post picture from my design. Almost 10 years I search for the right woofer to much the Gorlich mids and Morel tweeters.
I hate to cut -6db of from the sensitivity of the mids and tweeters but what I hate more the soft bass.
Thank you
Greetings gabor
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Old 24th October 2011, 11:22 PM   #6
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Hello

Some picture from my enclosure design.
All hand made the woofer enclosure has double & triple wall it weight alone 40Kg.
I plan to use a screw on stand on the woofer enclosure with spike. Also I plan to use spike between the woofer and mids enclosure. I'm not sure if there will be a need between the mids and tweeter enclosures.
It would be a huge waste to trow all the to the garbage because I don't find the right woofer to match the other two drivers.
I plan to build some tube amp and F5 also the reason I want to keep the sensitivity as close to 90db as possible.
I do not want to go on and stained until I'm not satisfied with the woofer. Now is 50L the woofer enclosure!
If I have to increase the woofer enclosure at the bottom by 10L. It is possible but will be a lot of work.
I feel these is a never ending project.

Greetings gabor
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File Type: jpg IMG_0002.JPG (51.3 KB, 553 views)
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Old 24th October 2011, 11:46 PM   #7
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Hi gaborbela!

Please note that there are several alignment to a BR box and do play around with a simulation program because you don´t have to use a "standard" alignment like a SBB4 or a QB3 one. The problem with such vast number of alternativs is that you have to find out which one you eventually prefer. And this has to do with perception. Measurments may guide you but only if you have the experience to judge what you usually prefer.

I use two heavy subs with one Volt RV 3143 in each and did a lot of simulations using the Sound Easy program. Somewhere in the process I had to start listening, my enclosures were to big so I had to place bags of sand inside them and I varied the lenght of the ports, this occupied me for more than a year but the end result was worth it.

There are some standard books like Bullock on boxes that may be usefull to read but in addition to this trust your ability and I hope you will be satisfied!
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Old 25th October 2011, 12:04 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inductor View Post
In this case I wouldn't be very suspicious. The frequency response could be -10dB or other, in this case it could be -3dB. I don't intend to answer for others mistakes, or lack of information as that is a rule in this market even among diyAudio members. But, the spec could be with different alignments (that OP is not using).
Hello
Do you think is possible to get from 50L enclosure 30Hz at -F3 using these Volt BM220.8?
I ask these because I already spent an arm and a leg of these speaker project.
I tested 4 diferent type of woofers
like Audax, Vifa, Scan Speak now these Monacor.
Nothing came close to my taste.
I know the best way to get a pair driver and after build the enclosure. That is how I started with the Audax.
The Vifa & Monacor both knew 20-30Hz but the Vifa sensitivity 85.5db and the Monacor lie, the given 90db only 87.75db and I hate that soft bass..
I do not mind to purchase a pair of VOLT BM22.8 but somewhere I must stop.
About the simulation I used to ask my friend who I think sick and tired about these project to.
The reason I turn to the forum to get some help...
Thank you guys
Greetings Gabor
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Old 25th October 2011, 12:24 AM   #9
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have you tryed Davis woofers 92db?

25SCA10W - Davis 10 inch woofer carbon - Europe Audio

or

AE Speakers --- Superb Quality, Unforgettable Performance, Definitely.

why dont you had a active sub to do the low extension you want ?

i tryed several woofers on my set , finally decided to stop spending money so i kept the 4 Visatons GF200 i had and got a JBL E250P sub , best decision ever.
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Old 25th October 2011, 12:34 AM   #10
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Hello
I hate to use separate sub. I'm sorry but not my style and taste also.
I have to mention I built several speakers over the 20 years (even for sale) and I never get in to trouble like with these.
Also I have a bookshelf Visaton AL130, I adore that little speaker.
To me it sound fantastic.
90db it would be enough if I get solid bass.
I'll take a look at those speakers you advised. The Volt somehow it seems to be a robust driver and if the CLASSIQUE - Gold got 30Hz out of 50L that would be perfect.
Again if their speech is true...
Greetings Gabor

Last edited by gaborbela; 25th October 2011 at 12:37 AM.
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