mini onken english translation - Page 2

Pano · 18th October 2011, 06:24 PM

It's interesting because the Onken Calc wants it in a 133L box, I see it as going in about 1/2 that, or 72L net for bass reflex. Greg sees it in an even smaller box, of about 58L.

The 133L tuned to 43Hz looks like an Extended Bass Shelf with a little peak at the bottom. Might play down into the upper 30s.

GM · 19th October 2011, 03:52 AM

You apparently didn't take the 2 ohms series resistance [Rg] into account [Qes = 0.438] that will increase the net Vb to a bit > the Onken's. After a quick scanning of the mini-onken article, it turns out I was using Jean Hiraga's 'ultra-bass' [actually mid-bass] alignment which doesn't consider effective motor strength, only Fs, Mms, effective piston radius. That would be dealt with in choosing a tuning point. The mini-onken appears to be only 'mini' referenced to the original Altec due to its smaller driver, differing specs.

Personally, if the specs being simmed are reasonably accurate, I'd follow the well proven design criteria used by WE, Altec and their 'clones', i.e. find the net Vb where Fs is raised 1.56x in a sealed cab, then vent it to Fs or ~99.2 L. No clue why the 'K' factor is 1.57 as I've read nothing to justify it being different, not that it will make an audible difference AFAIK.

GM

Pano · 19th October 2011, 12:32 PM

I think you're right, will double check my sim in Unibox.
EDIT:
Checked. I had Rg turned off. The Onken clac volume of 133L looks very good now in Unibox. 99L has just a little bit less extension. Not a bad trade off for a 3rd less volume.

vega65 · 20th October 2011, 10:05 AM

Thanks for the inputs !
It was mentioned that the three Onkens made in Paris have vents lenght

vega65 · 20th October 2011, 11:02 AM

sorry
The server dropped out during posting.
It was mentioned that the three Onkens made in Paris have vent lenghts just shorter than the allowed maximum.
I tried to achieve the same with supravox 215GMF but it is not possible without redusing the n factor well below 5.
as is wentlenght effective between 20/24 cm.To short ?
Gm I will look into your suggestion later.
As for the specs accuracy ,I do not know maybe an email to supravox will do.

Best regards Vegard
ps Supravox suggested this:

http://www.supravox.fr/kits/jensen215.pdf

Pano · 20th October 2011, 01:10 PM

The Supravox plans look like about 105 liters, net. Right in the volumes we discussed.
I'd use that.

vega65 · 09:47 PM

according to

Supravox 215GMFHow to tweak this driver to better performance

year 2006, the volume of the Jensen box is 102l , 312 cm^2 port areal (300mm lenght)

And fs was apparently 65 hz. specs of today says 45 hz
Even though the driver has different specs they still recommend the same enclosure ??

What are the consequences of letting vent areal become larger than drivers SD ?

Salectric · 24th October 2011, 03:37 PM

Vega65,

Were you ever successful in getting an English translation of the article? If so I would love to see it. MyFrench abilities don't take me very far.

rob g · 24th October 2011, 04:21 PM

Is that article from the same Jacques Mahul of Jmlabs/Focal fame?

vega65 · 24th October 2011, 04:25 PM

No
(strange maybe )
Guess if I regret choosing german as my second foreign language 30 years ago.
I have done some attempts to convert the picture of the article, and run it through google translate.The result is mediocre.
(at least when translating to norwegian)
So I am typing the french words in a new document, it seems to yield something understandable when running translation to english.It will take a few weeks due to lack of sparetime.

I will post it here when ready.

19th October 2011, 03:52 AM	#12
GM diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chamblee, Ga.	You apparently didn't take the 2 ohms series resistance [Rg] into account [Qes = 0.438] that will increase the net Vb to a bit > the Onken's. After a quick scanning of the mini-onken article, it turns out I was using Jean Hiraga's 'ultra-bass' [actually mid-bass] alignment which doesn't consider effective motor strength, only Fs, Mms, effective piston radius. That would be dealt with in choosing a tuning point. The mini-onken appears to be only 'mini' referenced to the original Altec due to its smaller driver, differing specs. Personally, if the specs being simmed are reasonably accurate, I'd follow the well proven design criteria used by WE, Altec and their 'clones', i.e. find the net Vb where Fs is raised 1.56x in a sealed cab, then vent it to Fs or ~99.2 L. No clue why the 'K' factor is 1.57 as I've read nothing to justify it being different, not that it will make an audible difference AFAIK. GM __________________ Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.

23rd October 2011, 09:27 PM	#17
vega65 diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2007	according to Supravox 215GMFHow to tweak this driver to better performance year 2006, the volume of the Jensen box is 102l , 312 cm^2 port areal (300mm lenght) And fs was apparently 65 hz. specs of today says 45 hz Even though the driver has different specs they still recommend the same enclosure ?? What are the consequences of letting vent areal become larger than drivers SD ? Last edited by vega65; 23rd October 2011 at 09:47 PM.

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18th October 2011, 06:24 PM	#11
Pano diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: North Carolina Blog Entries: 4	It's interesting because the Onken Calc wants it in a 133L box, I see it as going in about 1/2 that, or 72L net for bass reflex. Greg sees it in an even smaller box, of about 58L. The 133L tuned to 43Hz looks like an Extended Bass Shelf with a little peak at the bottom. Might play down into the upper 30s.

20th October 2011, 10:05 AM	#14
vega65 diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2007	Thanks for the inputs ! It was mentioned that the three Onkens made in Paris have vents lenght

20th October 2011, 11:02 AM	#15
vega65 diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2007	sorry The server dropped out during posting. It was mentioned that the three Onkens made in Paris have vent lenghts just shorter than the allowed maximum. I tried to achieve the same with supravox 215GMF but it is not possible without redusing the n factor well below 5. as is wentlenght effective between 20/24 cm.To short ? Gm I will look into your suggestion later. As for the specs accuracy ,I do not know maybe an email to supravox will do. Best regards Vegard ps Supravox suggested this: http://www.supravox.fr/kits/jensen215.pdf

20th October 2011, 01:10 PM	#16
Pano diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: North Carolina Blog Entries: 4	The Supravox plans look like about 105 liters, net. Right in the volumes we discussed. I'd use that.

24th October 2011, 03:37 PM	#18
Salectric diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Maryland	Vega65, Were you ever successful in getting an English translation of the article? If so I would love to see it. MyFrench abilities don't take me very far.

24th October 2011, 04:21 PM	#19
rob g diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2011	Is that article from the same Jacques Mahul of Jmlabs/Focal fame?

24th October 2011, 04:25 PM	#20
vega65 diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2007	No (strange maybe ) Guess if I regret choosing german as my second foreign language 30 years ago. I have done some attempts to convert the picture of the article, and run it through google translate.The result is mediocre. (at least when translating to norwegian) So I am typing the french words in a new document, it seems to yield something understandable when running translation to english.It will take a few weeks due to lack of sparetime. I will post it here when ready.