low-mid driver for active 5-way system?

[325addict]

In the near future, I'm planning to build a large active 5-way loudspeaker, with "X3" as a design goal. Let me explain this: most of the drivers do not have to reproduce a larger spectrum than 3 times that of the lowest frequency it has to reproduce. This works for all drivers except for the low frequency driver.

This is the plan now:

low, up to 300Hz: Dayton RSS-390 HF-4
low-mid, 300 - 900Hz: TO BE CHOSEN STILL
mid: 900 - 2700Hz: Visaton DSM50FFL
mid-high: 2700 - 8100Hz: Visaton DSM38FFL (discontinued, I have 2)
high: above 8100Hz: Visaton DSM25FFL

The system will be a closed 150 Litre box, resulting in an f3 = 30Hz.
With a pole shifting network I'll lower this to around 25Hz. This can be done easily the active way

This loudspeaker will be able to reproduce 110dB with the amplifiers I plan to use in this project (4X 100W RMS and 1X 400W RMS). It is meant to accurately reproduce synthesizer and synthi-pop as well as italo-disco and trance music. The somewhat aggressive sound the Visaton DSM units produce is very well suited for this music. It makes for a brilliant, dynamic sound. The large Dayton woofer should be capable of even reproducing the lower part of "Laserdance - stargazer". Curious?? You'll find this song on YouTube.... beware, extremely deep and loud bass.... this will be a challenge for both your amplifier and your loudspeakers!! Most sets don't manage to reproduce the lowest octave, and in addition, most amps will clip even at moderate volume levels.
This active 5-way system is meant to overcome all this. Raw power from 25Hz to 20,000Hz

So far, so good. But now it comes to the low-mid driver. It has to match the efficiency of the Visaton drivers (90 to 91dB/w/m) and some more! Due to losses in the closed cabinet and damping used, I may need 93dB at least.

It has to meet these criteria:
1. NO PA-driver please! I don't like the sound they give,
2. efficiency at least 93dB/w/m,
3. impedance 8 Ohms,
4. size doesn't matter much. 5" to 8" is OK,
5. has to perform well in a closed box,
6. operating frequency: 300 - 900Hz.

Now, WHO has the right driver for me?

Thank you all in advance,


Timmo.

[Andrew Eckhardt]

1. NO PA-driver please! I don't like the sound they give,
2. efficiency at least 93dB/w/m,

Notional asymptote. The efficiency requirement leads to a particular set of commonly found design aspects. There will be no rubber surrounds on heavy, overly damped/treated cones, for example.. Whatver fits the bill is going to be half pro, half hifi in nature.

[Andrew Eckhardt]

Accuton C173-6-090 6.5" Ceramic Cone Midrange: Madisound Speaker Store

[325addict]

This Accuton certainly is what I'm looking for... clearly, I forgot to mention the price range

I think around $200,- per driver should do well, or....???


Thanks for the help! So quick, and already 2 answers... GREAT!!


Timmo.

[Boscoe]

Personally I think you would be better off with a sub and a two way. It can be easily achieved and will save you a lot of money to buy better drivers!

Save your amplifiers too.

EDIT - Also why do you need to match efficiency with a active system?

[RockLeeEV]

Acoustic Elegance TD6

1. NO PA-driver please! I don't like the sound they give

Care to describe the "sound they give"? Some B&C, PHL, and Acoustic Elegance midrange drivers probably sound more accurate than any driver you've ever heard. What makes it a PA driver in the first place?

4. size doesn't matter much. 5" to 8" is OK,

So you're making a 5-way speaker with no concern for the polar response

Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a 5-way?

[jorre2002]

Electrovoice EVM10DLX 10" ?
Works great for me....

[ScottG]

Originally Posted by 325addict

..active 5-way loudspeaker..

It has to match the efficiency of the Visaton drivers (90 to 91dB/w/m) and some more!


Timmo.

If it's active it doesn't.. just match the power the power to excursion.

[RockLeeEV]

Originally Posted by ScottG

If it's active it doesn't.. just match the power the power to excursion.

given that the band from about 300hz to around 1khz is very power hungry, i'd feed it lots of power and have very high sensitivity

[325addict]

In the first place, I have all the same amplifiers (using the same voltage in the supply) except for the woofer.

So, in the ideal world, the efficiency of all these drivers except the woofer should match more or less.

No problems arise, when ONE of the four has a HIGHER efficiency. Just throttle it back a bit.

Problems DO arise, when one of the four has a LOWER efficiency than all the others. When turning up the volume, the amplifier driving it will clip first of all (and, in a bad situation, even BEFORE the woofer amp clips (this one has 4X the power of the others, meaning the woofer virtually has +6dB efficiency of the others but this one simply needs more, damping of the cabinet reduces the SPL...)

So, that's the reason I want it to be ore or less the same as a starting point. THEN, small differences can, indeed, be adjusted easily.

Personally, I strongly dislike subwoofers. I just want it all from ONE cabinet, and a large one is no problem for me. Until now, the Dayton RSS-390 HF-4 is the best I could find. It will have an f3 of 30Hz in a 150 litre cabinet. By using an active "pole shifting filter" this can easily be stretched to 25Hz.
If anyone knows a better one that still plays without problems to 300Hz but will go deeper than 30Hz in an equally sized cabinet... well, make my happy day

Saving amplifiers is not necessary. I think I may have parts in stock to build more than 50 channels of discrete, high quality amps. This project will cost me 10 channels, so no problem. I will use the famous Toshiba 2SA1095-Y and 2SC2565-Y for all but the bass-amps and I think I'll use normal 100 to 130W output devices for the bass-amp... or just use the larger 2SA1302 / 2SC3281 or 2SA1553 / 2SC4029 or the 2SA1943 / 2SC5200 pair. I have at least 50 pairs each, (original Toshiba!!) and I'll use at least 5 pairs in one amp to have a real low output impedance and good heat distribution over the heat sink (which is a massive one: 8" X 15").
I'll use one such a heat sink for the bass amp alone, and one heat sink for all four other amps. That should keep it cool. No fans required.

The TD6 that was mentioned I cannot find. Has it been discontinued? The smallest that I can find on the website is 10" which a bit too large...

describe the sound of the average PA-driver? Raw, with high levels of distortion an no even, true sound reproduction. But indeed, I know the drivers from PHL (they are used in the French APG loudspeakers) and these don't sound bad at all...

I think the only ones that will NOT be happy with the results of this project are my neighbors


Timmo.