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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Solid walnut Domus resto
Solid walnut Domus resto
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Old 2nd October 2011, 08:15 AM   #1
hkingman is offline hkingman  United States
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Default Solid walnut Domus resto

Picked up a pair of little solid hardwood (walnut and mahogany?) Domus speakers for $4 at the thrift store this morning. I'd like to fix 'em up for use with a little chip-amp as computer speakers, but could use some help picking out drivers. One is blown completely, so I thought I'd just buy all new drivers.

Click the image to open in full size.

The enclosure is 0.114 cubic feet (198 cubic inches) by my measurement. The wood is 3/4 thick, solid.

The Tweeter is a Pioneer FB26KP34-51D, a cheap 10mm 6 ohm part. I thought this might work as a replacement?
Audax TW010F1 10 mm Polymer Dome Tweeter: Madisound Speaker Store

The crossover comprises a single very large capacitor in an unmarked cardboard tube. I don't see any writing on it. It's visible glued in the corner, here:

Click the image to open in full size.

Would the capacitor still be good? Is there an easy way to test them? I believe Domus was around in the early 80s. It was founded by Don Kliewer, who went on to found high-end Minnesota speaker maker DLK.

The tweeter, woofer, and terminal cup are non-working in one of the units. There are two challenges. One, finding a square spring-clip terminal cup for a 1-3/4 cutout. They all seem to be 1-7/8 these days.

Click the image to open in full size.

Finally, I have not been able to identify the woofer, and am not too sure how to go about figuring out a replacement. It says 523TNF on the back, and 10.20, which may be the cutout size in cm.

Does anyone know of a decent (hopefully low cost!) shielded 5-inch woofer suitable for a very small enclosure with 4.75" cutout? Ideally, it should be the rounded rectangle variety, with four screw holes, as the tweeter sits fairly close.

Thanks for any suggestions!

-Henry
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Old 2nd October 2011, 10:28 AM   #2
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkingman View Post
The crossover comprises a single very large capacitor in an unmarked cardboard tube.
It probably wouldn't hurt to throw it. While on the subject, how do you feel about making crossovers? A single cap would be less than ideal. Using a full range driver is one option to work around this that may be suitable for desktop speakers.
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Old 2nd October 2011, 05:21 PM   #3
hkingman is offline hkingman  United States
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Default crossovers v. First order capacitor

Hi AllenB

Thanks for the reply!

I'd love to go full-range (I'm a fan), but worried about too much frequency overlap with the tweeter. I can't quite recall... is the capacitor a "first order" crossover? If so, will it be phase-aligned with the woofer? Or 90 degrees off? Maybe if both drivers are in phase, overlap wouldn't be such a big deal?

The little 10mm domes seem to drop out below 6K. I looked at "supertweeters" that kick in even higher up the range, but they were generally too big to fit in the 2-inch cutout. And anyhow, the five-inch full-ranger drivers I've seen mostly all appear to be optimized for ported enclosures, or at least fairly large sealed boxes.

So my thought was to try to "stay true" to the builder's original design, just to keep things simple. I do own a soldering iron, and while I don't know the first thing about crossovers, would love to learn, if it'd make a significant difference in the final result. I'd love for these little babies to sound as good as they look :-)

My impression, though, is that speaker builders usually start with the drivers, then design the optimal cabinet. Being in the position of going about it backwards, do you think I could obtain a reasonable result?

Cheers, and thanks

-Henry
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Old 2nd October 2011, 05:30 PM   #4
Cal Weldon is offline Cal Weldon  Canada
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Solid walnut Domus resto
Might be tough getting replacements.

Quote from another site:

"Domus speakers were a house brand of Schaak Electronics, a Minneapolis based electronics chain that went belly-up in '85."

Interesting story:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schaak_Electronics
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Old 2nd October 2011, 05:33 PM   #5
Cal Weldon is offline Cal Weldon  Canada
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Solid walnut Domus resto
I kinda like the idea of using a wide range or full range driver and using a very small cap on a tweeter to fill out the top end. If you use a 1.5 or 1.0 mfd cap you won't have to worry about the overlap.

Now the question is what WR or FR?
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Old 2nd October 2011, 06:00 PM   #6
hkingman is offline hkingman  United States
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What WR or FR, indeed!

What do you think of this one, Cal?
Aurasound NS525-255-8A 5.25" Paper Cone 8 Ohm: Madisound Speaker Store

From what I read, it looks like it'd be better to have a lower Qts, and a bigger xmax?

There's also this one, which though very cheap, doesn't look too bad?
Aurasound NS525-255-8A 5.25" Paper Cone 8 Ohm: Madisound Speaker Store

I wish I had a better sense of how to read all these numbers. Further research needed, I guess! Thanks for any suggestions/help
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Old 3rd October 2011, 12:43 AM   #7
hkingman is offline hkingman  United States
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Okay, after poring over specs far too long, I think I'm going to try these:
Fountek FR135EX 5" Full Range: Madisound Speaker Store

It's either those, or the $4 Aurasound full-rangers. Maybe I'll get a pair of those, too... if it turns out my ears aren't good enough to tell the difference, I'll sell the Fountek's on ebay :-)

so now, I'm wondering what caps to get. What is the difference between going with 1mfd vs. a 1.5mfd one?

Thanks!
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Old 3rd October 2011, 12:55 AM   #8
Cal Weldon is offline Cal Weldon  Canada
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Solid walnut Domus resto
Well let's see now. In one hand you have a $4 speaker and your other hand holds a $100 unit. I think those cabinets are worth something in the middle but the Aurasound look to be a heck of a deal to start with.

As far as the caps go, buy 2 of each and get some 2.2's while you're at it. Buy electrolytic NP 50V in the 3 values I have suggested and also pick up 2 of each inexpensive sand cast 10W resistors at 1, 2 and 4 ohm. That all will cost but a few dollars and allow you to adapt the driver sound to your preference.

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Old 3rd October 2011, 01:06 AM   #9
AllenB is offline AllenB  Australia
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The issue you'll be dealing with when using a full ranger is llikely to be the compromise between more smooth top end and less consideration for bass. Think about how this will help. If you were to use a conventional 5" woofer, you'd want to cross it somewhere below 3k in an effort to avoid the possibly harsh top end.

This requires that you use a 'tweeter', not a 'super-tweeter', and you have already indicated a limited space on the baffle.

A fullrange driver may be smooth enough to relieve you of your crossover point limitation so you can choose whichever tweeter you want, but you may have to take whatever bass you get.

Regardless I would be suggesting an attempt to roll off the woofer top end as well as the tweeter. As far as phase issues are concerned the drivers are not 'flat' to begin with, nor are their interactions with a crossover so it just isn't as simple as you are suspecting it might be. You should probably first concentrate on getting drivers that will work well with each other after they are first set to work within their best range.
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Old 3rd October 2011, 04:46 AM   #10
hkingman is offline hkingman  United States
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Default Reasonable enough

Thanks for the suggestions, you guys. It helps!

Cal, the $4 and the $100 units were the only "full-range" speakers (so-called by Madisound and Parts-Express) I found that would physically fit. With its 4-3/4 cutout, the little baby Domus boxes are too big for the Fostex 5-inchers, and way too small for the 5-inch Tang Bands and 6.5-inch Fostexs.

Quite a bit of car audio gear would fit, and I even found a $10 blue poly "Ford Mustang GT" overstock model available for $10, with a $25 pre-built crossover, and $18 1-inch aluminum dome tweeter. All that would fit. But I guess for some near-field monitors, it seems like image and timing might be more important than resolution and power handling and chunky bass? (How chunky is bass *ever* going to be in a tiny sealed monitor?)

I also looked at quite a few "5 to 5-1/2" woofers that would fit, including many marketed as low/mid bass units, and with response graphs fairly flat up to 7kHz and beyond. Perhaps this Fostex model would make a good "Mama Bear" choice?
Fostex FW137 5.5" Woofer Shielded: Madisound Speaker Store

The x-maxx is only 1mm, but if that means it's fast and 3D, hey, that's what I'm talking 'bout. Oddly, I notice in places Fostex has marketed this as a "subwoofer," which seems a reach for a 5-inch unit with 1mm of xmaxx and a flat response to 8kHz! It's a little scary that the recommended enclosure for this unit is so different from mine (0.4 cubic feet vs. 0.11, bass reflex vs. sealed). But maybe that's only for subwoofer applications ;-) From my (very limited) understanding of speaker specs, I don't see any deal-breakers at all for this application.

Anyway, I decided Cal's right -- why not give the $4 parts a try first? maybe they'll be great? :-)

I guess now it's time to read up on filter networks.

Cheers,

-Henry
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