Best midrange to pair with Beyma TPL-150

hi Gordan


yes, i think the Audax pr170m0 is a good candidate. If i would have to start from scratch, i don't think however i would use a horn in the lower midrange. Just a direct radiator, eventually open baffle.

A mono sub below 110hz isnt a good thing. I use my mono sub below 50hz.
Its absolutely essencial to have a stereo pair of woofers covering 50hz to ~ 150hz.
 
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mono sub limit

"A mono sub below 110hz isnt a good thing. I use my mono sub below 50hz.
Its absolutely essencial to have a stereo pair of woofers covering 50hz to ~ 150hz. "

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Hi Angelo,
By chance, I am using a mono-sub crossed at 50 Hz. My mid-bass/low mid units cover from 50-500 (a daunting task).

My audio buddies keep urging me to move my sub-to mid-bass x-over higher,
but I am hesistant. So I am asking for what info/ experiences brought you to your conclusion ?
best regards, Scott L.
 
i didn't mean mono sub-bass , i was just not precise. i've actually thought of two sub horns...

would be curious to hear why wouldn't you want to use a horn for mid-bass/low-mid?

i have a slight feeling you are changing your listening priorities and dynamics are not a priority anymore....
 
i didn't mean mono sub-bass , i was just not precise. i've actually thought of two sub horns...

would be curious to hear why wouldn't you want to use a horn for mid-bass/low-mid?

i have a slight feeling you are changing your listening priorities and dynamics are not a priority anymore....

Gordan

this week i will have my Onken W style cabinets with Altec 416a at home. I will be able to compare them direct with my basshorn, and relate the differences. But my intent is to use them both..... The new cabs above the basshorn...... that might sound crazy, but nothing goes over trying things out....

I am padding the lower midrange horn down, since it has 109db/wm, while the Beyma has ~ 101 db/wm. A direct radiator Audax has about the same sensitivity as the Beyma. I can't say however what would change in regard of dynamics. I suspect, very little.....

My audio buddies keep urging me to move my sub-to mid-bass x-over higher,
but I am hesistant. So I am asking for what info/ experiences brought you to your conclusion ?
best regards, Scott L.

hi Scott

as said to Gordan, nothing goes over experimenting. Theory is one thing. Trying out things, is another. Maibe its worth , if the effort is not too much, to try out, cross your subs higher, and see , how they perform. My sub is a Aura 1808 in vented cab, and does not sound good at higher frequencies. But depending on what sub you use, it might work well... Its all relative.
 
angelo, i don't think audax on a baffle can reach beyma's sensitivity, for sure no. the subject of pr170m0 factory measurements was already discussed around. they need a horn to match the beymas.

i'm wondering where are you now with the system. frankly i'm finding very strange you are running different drivers over the same frequency and not getting why are you doing that.

maybe i'm wrong but considering the speed and microdynamics of an AMT tweeter, i would still try to avoid matching it with a cone driver.

actually i think the way to go is to have a low mid CD in a good horn, like BMS 4592 for more crystal clear or DCM50 for more rounded sound. They can both go to 300 (BMS) or 400 (B&C), which makes a bass solution easy. On the other side both are linear all the way to 3k at least, which gives a bit of freedom to experiment where to cross in order to relax Beymas so they can perform HF better than they do when crossed at 1.2k.

Actually, DCM50 + TPL150h, that would be a nice combo to hear.

Cheers
 
angelo, i don't think audax on a baffle can reach beyma's sensitivity, for sure no. the subject of pr170m0 factory measurements was already discussed around. they need a horn to match the beymas.

i'm wondering where are you now with the system. frankly i'm finding very strange you are running different drivers over the same frequency and not getting why are you doing that.

maybe i'm wrong but considering the speed and microdynamics of an AMT tweeter, i would still try to avoid matching it with a cone driver.

actually i think the way to go is to have a low mid CD in a good horn, like BMS 4592 for more crystal clear or DCM50 for more rounded sound. They can both go to 300 (BMS) or 400 (B&C), which makes a bass solution easy. On the other side both are linear all the way to 3k at least, which gives a bit of freedom to experiment where to cross in order to relax Beymas so they can perform HF better than they do when crossed at 1.2k.

Actually, DCM50 + TPL150h, that would be a nice combo to hear.

Cheers

hi Gordan

i am in Hong Kong now. In the next few days i will visit Line Magnetic factory near Macau. I will probably buy a pair of LM555 drivers, and see how they will perform in the lower midrange, paired with the Beyma.
For why i use two different drivers to cover the same frequency range :
the Coral M100 in the midrange horn is padded down, the L pad is almost closed. It adds a littlebit more soundstage, i like it . But i told you that already.....

Angelo
 
anyone can report on a good match with a low mid compression driver bellow beyma?

i'm particularly curious about B&C DCM50, it seems it can be had for 230e at the moment at some sales

BMS4592 mid is too costly for me (if still around 600e a piece)

i have vitavox S3, however it won't go as low as above....

the idea is to find a good option to reach 300-400 in lows and around 2k in highs so beyma can be relaxed from being stressed on its lower limits, hope this will improve its HF performance. though i have fostex 825, i'd love to avoid it if possible

also it would easier for a bass solution not to go any higher than 300-400
 
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anyone can report on a good match with a low mid compression driver bellow beyma?

i'm particularly curious about B&C DCM50, it seems it can be had for 230e at the moment at some sales

BMS4592 mid is too costly for me (if still around 600e a piece)

i have vitavox S3, however it won't go as low as above....

the idea is to find a good option to reach 300-400 in lows and around 2k in highs so beyma can be relaxed from being stressed on its lower limits, hope this will improve its HF performance. though i have fostex 825, i'd love to avoid it if possible

also it would easier for a bass solution not to go any higher than 300-400

hi Gordan

i have seen your post at AA. Have you heard or do you possess the Beyma TPL-150 ? because i would not like to miss anything specially of the lower frequencies the Beyma reproduces, and where it shines most. I have heard today a YL acoustics system here in Hong Kong, and i am shocked how colored these systems perform, after i acostumed to the Beyma. I measured the frequecy response of it at my home, and it is flat up to 20khz. I dont miss any treble, and dont see why cross it higher will help to better in some way the higher frequencies reproduction.

Angelo
 
anyone can report on a good match with a low mid compression driver bellow beyma?

i'm particularly curious about B&C DCM50, it seems it can be had for 230e at the moment at some sales

BMS4592 mid is too costly for me (if still around 600e a piece)

i have vitavox S3, however it won't go as low as above....

the idea is to find a good option to reach 300-400 in lows and around 2k in highs so beyma can be relaxed from being stressed on its lower limits, hope this will improve its HF performance. though i have fostex 825, i'd love to avoid it if possible

also it would easier for a bass solution not to go any higher than 300-400
You realize this will be a very large horn, right?
 
just bough a pair here. it will be in a few weeks time with me.

do you cross it at 1.2k?

there were several reports that low crossing affects the HF behaviour (over 10k) but who knows before a trial


hi Gordan

i have read Tuyens report at hifiwigwam. I dont share his views. The TPL 150 has very nice, and enough treble. Even, crossed low. To avoid crossover between the midrange and tweeter, and avoid to use two separate speakers, is just one of the advantages. I would just wait yours to arrive, and then try and listen to it , and find out , what fits best to you.

p.s. just wondering. where did you buy yours, and how much did you pay ?
in case you dont want to say it publicly, please email me.
 
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angelo, i don't think audax on a baffle can reach beyma's sensitivity, for sure no. the subject of pr170m0 factory measurements was already discussed around. they need a horn to match the beymas.

i'm wondering where are you now with the system. frankly i'm finding very strange you are running different drivers over the same frequency and not getting why are you doing that.

maybe i'm wrong but considering the speed and microdynamics of an AMT tweeter, i would still try to avoid matching it with a cone driver.

actually i think the way to go is to have a low mid CD in a good horn, like BMS 4592 for more crystal clear or DCM50 for more rounded sound. They can both go to 300 (BMS) or 400 (B&C), which makes a bass solution easy. On the other side both are linear all the way to 3k at least, which gives a bit of freedom to experiment where to cross in order to relax Beymas so they can perform HF better than they do when crossed at 1.2k.

Actually, DCM50 + TPL150h, that would be a nice combo to hear.

Cheers

A bit of a late comer to this party, but I am playing in the same sand box.

I have a pair of TPL150Hs coming to play with, among a host of other horns/CD. I have a pair of Autotech Iwata 300hz and Radian 950pb or Community M200As to use ~450hz or so up.

The DCM50 look interesting, but what horn could you use to get lower than 400hz already seeming the limit, or near at least? The M200a's are technically able to hit that on paper.

Right now, I am looking at more the solution up to 400hz, namely Inlowsound's 80hz MB horn (I can just live with this depth). He has been kind enough to help me out with exploring other driver options, like the AE TD18H+. That looks to be squeezing 80-400hz out, which might be pushing it to the Iwatas, can't tell on paper.
 
A bit of a late comer to this party, but I am playing in the same sand box.

I have a pair of TPL150Hs coming to play with, among a host of other horns/CD. I have a pair of Autotech Iwata 300hz and Radian 950pb or Community M200As to use ~450hz or so up.

The DCM50 look interesting, but what horn could you use to get lower than 400hz already seeming the limit, or near at least? The M200a's are technically able to hit that on paper.

Right now, I am looking at more the solution up to 400hz, namely Inlowsound's 80hz MB horn (I can just live with this depth). He has been kind enough to help me out with exploring other driver options, like the AE TD18H+. That looks to be squeezing 80-400hz out, which might be pushing it to the Iwatas, can't tell on paper.

If someone is building a new speaker system , using the TPL150 from scratch, what is the reason to use in the lower midrange a horn loaded driver ?
Not only will integration be more difficult, but you load the driver and will have at least 105db wm, and will need to attenuate it, to match the efficiency of the Beyma. Makes no sense to me.
If i knew the Beyma earlier, i would not have gone the horn route at all.

Listened Avantgarde Trio here in Hong Kong, at the official distributors place.
My perception was completely different than when i heard it before. This time, the flaws where right away perceivable. Bad integration of the 3 main channels, no much treble extension, and quite colored.

Heard Wilson Audio Alexandria as well . That is becoming a reference to me. Just amazing. Very dynamic, wonderful integration, and natural midrange.

Audio here in Hong Kong , and China, is alive as i have not seen anywhere else. There are blocks with 20 shops, all at one place, only selling highend audio stuff of any sort. At one place, you see several shops, only selling audio cables.

I am thinking in making next year eventually a commercial speaker. Using the Beyma with a dipole wave guide, mtm design with 8 inch PHL audio for the lower midrange and bass, and upscalable system, where someone can add a sub woofer cabinet for more bass.
 
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angelo, there's a clear reason why to use a horn bellow TPL-150, because it's a matter of taste for some of us. it's a dynamic impact of a low mid horn - just as well as a mid-bass horn that there's no substitute elsewhere. of course some people have different taste and can find a clean but undynamic sound of OB mid 100% acceptable and that's perfectly okay with me, i'm certainly not going to go around tell anyone what to like and what to dislike.
the only speakers i've heard so far that have some quality to get that sort of dynamics on lower part of that range without horn loading is 15" and 16" altec bass and mid bass drivers but than again, it's a matter of taste (i would need more listening to be completely sure they don't have a particular "tone" - or coloration - that somehow leaves a similar sonic stamp on different recordings). plus it's only 414 who can be used to hold on the a lower knee of TPL150.
so each to its own.
i will get my beymas only in late january so i need to be patient, more will be known in a short time afterwards.
at the moment, on a conceptual level, i'm more inclined to experiment with vintage low mid drivers with a particular rich tone and less forensic presentation compared to the more modern ones. i did live with BMS4592 and frankly that's a terrific driver - OK, a mid part of it - if you know how to use it and a significant part of the success is to find a way how to give it a tone and a flavour, which was in my case a product of using extremely musical passive elements for xovers by duelund and to feed with with a very good 10Y SE amp.
i'm a bit scared that beymas will not be able to avoid a ribbon stamp - forensic reproduction devoid of serious dynamic impact of real music - which i dearly hate, if my experience with any ribbon aiming to play under 7-8k so far is relevant. i'm only sensing it needs a driver with very rich tone so some i want to try are vitavox S3 from 450 on, audax PR170M0 from 250 on and fane 8M from 150 on. i will report here on findings...

The DCM50 look interesting, but what horn could you use to get lower than 400hz already seeming the limit, or near at least? The M200a's are technically able to hit that on paper.

bill woods crosses it at 450hz in his AH300 horn. some italians (can't remember the names - they were building khorn replikas with advanced drivers) at 400 in what looks like a 250 square horn. i have with me a 220 tractrix (bd orphean) that looks perfect on paper for this use and even more, to experiment how low DCM50 can be crossed. the BMS 4592 i use it with is crossed only at 270hz, steep - i would personally never have balls to do it, but apparently the drivers are not harmed in home use. i guess the DCM50 can be tested with 350hz crossover in that horn...
 
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For me, part of the whole journey is going to be an experiment in what works best given the choices I have on hand. I am not married to anything just because I have it to try.

I have some ~300ish-hz Tractrix bowls too. Then I have some 140hz LeCleach mahogany horns. Those are big and probably harder to integrate. Never-the-less, a journey will be made.