well, my agroupation of the two speakers is not a example to be followed, since i just made a rudimentary experiment initially, and built the 12p80nd into a cabinet i had around ( which i made for a Audax Cleveland bass ) , and it remained there until now.
below a picture of my system as its now.
Attachments
yes, thats where the 12p80nd is mounted. It tops by far my lower midrange horn with Fane Studio 8m. ( which sounds muddy and colored in comparison ).
The 12p80nd sounds incredibly defined and fast and natural, amazing for a 12" to have this sort of definition in the mid range, a gourmet for the ear. A real out-performer.
Well. These rock the house. Literally. I mean, these are meant to be P.A. speakers. Undistorted performance with hudge headroom. Its good to have a sub below, in the lowest register its rather shy, but if you have nothing to add, its ok .
Ah, sounds exactly like what I am looking for. I normally don't play that loud but when I want to play loud my speakers must be able to handle it. And playing music with great dynamic range (like classical music) requires a lot of headroom if you want to play it at realistic levels.
Also I have a pair of Eminence LAB12 in sealed cabinets that goes down to ~20Hz with EQ so I guess I'll be fine.
Regarding the Beyma TPL-150, is it better with or without horn? Is 1.6kHz a good crossover frequency? Is it possible to use a MiniDSP for that? What is suggested amplifier power for the TPL-150? And what for the 12p80nd?
Above 1,6khz it will do fine without a wave guide. Crossover is in my view ok down to 1,3khz with wave guide, but many think its better to use above 1,6khz ( which also improves treble performance ). I use a Groundsound DCN23 active crossover ; based on what i read about the minidsp, that should do fine. I use pure Class A amps. My Hiraga has 30 Watts per channel. I would not use a amp with less than 20 watts. Same for the 12p80nd.
Sure Angelo,
The bass was perhaps a tad deeper, but not much. However the bass was a lot tighter and cleaner sounding. The change in the sound of the bass was similar to what you'd expect to hear when switching from tube amplification to solid state. As for the treble, it noticeably more extended, cleaner and sweeter sounding. It now has outstanding decay that goes on & on until it completely fades into the blackness of silence.
But the midrange is where the cone treatment's "magic" does it's greatest work! The harmonics, tone & timbre have a rightness to them that makes acoustic instruments & singers sound eerily real. Inner detail is at a level I've not heard before ---{inner detail is so good now I catch myself listening quiet things happening when there's a loud passage. For example: I'll listen for an acoustic guitarist tapping his fingers on his guitar while a drum player has a loud drum solo or something like that. It's amazing to hear these quiet things happening that I've missed before}--- but, this of course is a result of the incredibly increased transparency & clarity!
Then of course there's the soundstage. This proprietary cone treatment works it's "magic" even further as it increases the soundstage's width well beyond the outside of speakers and as it increases the soundstage's depth from front to back! People are placed within this larger soundstage and take on an almost 3-d palpability to themselves. That should give you some idea of the "magic" this cone treatment performs, but you really should talk to Mike.
I'm listening to: Larger Than Life by Skywalk
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
hi Tom
i suspect the treatment changes somehow the break-up modes and extends treble. It would be interesting to have other people that have a listen at your home to comment on this.
Angelo
depends on what you mean by realistic levels
I don't think classical music is very loud, is it ?
problem could be that we may have to play loud to achieve the realistic dynamics it holds
but isn't that a different problem ?
Well, a big orchestra is loud. It may not always be loud but when it is loud it is really loud. I was sitting in on a band practice class in a high school in America last week. There were about 45 students and I was sitting in the front along with the flutes and piccolos so I had the whole orchestra behind me. Playing overture to candide it was very loud at some points, louder than my current speakers would be able to handle.
Angelo,
I could ask a couple people from my audio forum who've had Mike treat the cones on their drivers if you could email them? Pablo had two pairs of the Dayton PS220-8 drivers treated and I believe another person from my forum had Mike treat his PS220-8 drivers as well. Send me an email at: thetubeguy1954(at)yahoo(dot)com That way I'll have your email address to send you a way to contact these other people if they want to talk with you about their drivers with treated cones.
I'm listening to: Iguana by Ray Obiedo
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
hi Tom
since i will receive the Beyma 5G40nd's, i would be willing to make a experiment with the cone treatment. How much is the price of the quantity to treat one pair of 12" and a pair of 5" drivers ? If you do not want to share the price publicly, you can drop me a e-mail.
Angelo
Hi Everyone. I'm looking for a big midrange driver and need your advice.
I need a 10" or 12" midrange driver mated to DE250 compression driver in SEOS 12 on top and active DSP driven, sealed subwoofer on bass. This midrange would probably work in small, sealed box and cover circa 150hz - 1500hz bandwidth.
I've already tried Faital 12PR300 wich is a wonderful driver. Very flat response gives a lot of crossover possibilities. While sounding great I wanted to check if there is even more to gain in terms of detail in 500-1500hz band.
Therefore I decided to try out Beyma 10MI100 wich look like a killer drivers for my purposes. UInortunately I'm not very fond of it. It has a significat dip in response at 1.5khz. This leaves me no space to play around with XO. Crossing over has to be at around 1.2khz. Leave or take it.
1200hz is doable but I just don't like to be limited that way.
I've contacted Beyma and they claim that they changed construction of the midwoofer a long time ago but forgot (!) to change datasheets !!!
Now I can exchange it to something different so I'm looking for alternatives.
Improving 500-1500hz range is my priority so I'm looking for something with flat response and extreme BL/mms ratio.
Of Beyma offering I like two options so far
Liberty 8 - 12E120
and
12MI100
and maybe
12P80Fe
I also like 18 sound 10m600, B&C 10MD26 and Faital 10PR410 but the're little to expesive for my budget.
You guys have any advise? I'don't listen loud. Just with 4W SET amp for highs and midgrange.
I need a 10" or 12" midrange driver mated to DE250 compression driver in SEOS 12 on top and active DSP driven, sealed subwoofer on bass. This midrange would probably work in small, sealed box and cover circa 150hz - 1500hz bandwidth.
I've already tried Faital 12PR300 wich is a wonderful driver. Very flat response gives a lot of crossover possibilities. While sounding great I wanted to check if there is even more to gain in terms of detail in 500-1500hz band.
Therefore I decided to try out Beyma 10MI100 wich look like a killer drivers for my purposes. UInortunately I'm not very fond of it. It has a significat dip in response at 1.5khz. This leaves me no space to play around with XO. Crossing over has to be at around 1.2khz. Leave or take it.
1200hz is doable but I just don't like to be limited that way.
I've contacted Beyma and they claim that they changed construction of the midwoofer a long time ago but forgot (!) to change datasheets !!!
Now I can exchange it to something different so I'm looking for alternatives.
Improving 500-1500hz range is my priority so I'm looking for something with flat response and extreme BL/mms ratio.
Of Beyma offering I like two options so far
Liberty 8 - 12E120
and
12MI100
and maybe
12P80Fe
I also like 18 sound 10m600, B&C 10MD26 and Faital 10PR410 but the're little to expesive for my budget.
You guys have any advise? I'don't listen loud. Just with 4W SET amp for highs and midgrange.
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I guess Mrs. Paloma Martinez is not there anymore...
More of the same, 10":
AUDAX PR240T4
Fane SOVEREIGN PRO 10-300SC
Hi Angelo!
If you want to talk to someone who's also had Mike mod not only 1 pair of Dayton PS220-8 drivers but after listening to his 1st pair of Rispoli-modded drivers, liked what he heard so much, had Mike treat the cones of a 2nd pair of those same drivers. Then go to my online audio forum called SETriodes here: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/singleendedtriodes/info Then you can ask Pablo what his impressions were!
I'm listening to: Afterdark by Halie Loren
Thetubeguy1954
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hi Tom
i have put my experimenting of new audio related things at rest. What i have now, fullfills perfectly my needs, i do not see any reason to try different things out.
but thanks anyway.
Angelo
So Angelo that Beyma TPL-150 & 12P80Nd combo still has your juices flowing huh? Would you give me a link to your thread here about your project using those drivers? I'd like to read everything once again and see what cabinet you are using.
Thanks my good friend.
Thetubeguy1954
Tom,
this topic has good information. Just search for tpl150, and see what shows up. And there is lots of info at my forum.
Angelo